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Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2006, 1:01PM
by Joe Stone

I was on the phone for an hour so my above is a little behind now. I also thought that a return policy would be OK by the honesty and integrity I have seen on display with this group. I sure wish it wasn't show week so the Therm team could give us a thought or two. If they are all busy those of us going will discuss this at length and report back I am sure. Dan you are obviously one of only a few people with the training, knowledge, software, etc... to help many of us in the ways mentioned above. I for one would LOVE to figure out how to compensate you for such services to go beside this area of the program. Advertising and Marketing dollars are always lagging behind direct product costs in a small business. I think this is a great supplement for the small guys out there, and another GREAT and UNIQUE possibility for Ecabs members. I just peaked below, Mitch I didn't plan to be your shadow but I can't type fast-sorry.

Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2006, 1:09PM
by DanEpps
You didn't lose anything at all in the translation Mitch.

You are quite correct. What we all have been presented with is an opportunity. What we do with it is up to us individually AND collectively. As Benjamin Franklin said to John Hancock at the signing of the Declaration of Independence, \"We must indeed all hang together, or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.\"

The only way we can compete with the likes of KraftMaid is to \"hang together\" and what better way to do this that to create just such a customizable catalog?

I will start a new poll on this thought and see what kind of input we can get and just how interested the membership is. We can also informally poll at the IWF this week.

Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2006, 1:12PM
by Mitch Cain
Joe - by all means, let us walk in each other's shadow let the thunder be heard, we need to market these designs too!

I second the nod to Dan by the way...

(Joe, I grew up north of you in a little burg called Hastings...still have most of my family out there..)

Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2006, 1:14PM
by Joe Stone

Post the poll in the Ecab forum, not enough views here to get good participation. In your expert opinion Dan, how hard would this be to do?? If people use it can you get some money back for the time?

Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2006, 1:23PM
by Joe Stone

Good thing you left, the Auto segment is killing us all here again short term. I know Hastings a little, I grew up in Dearborn (City boy). Moved here for business, was VERY heavy growth until recently. I will survive this partly because of these types of ideas and seeing them through. I hear you about the thunder, it only takes a little rumble and the TEAM listens and evaluates. I bet they already plan on expanding and taking advantage of members qualifications like Dan to help the program, and of course the members on both sides. Dan I really hope to discuss this with you and many others this week, just don't respond so !@#$ quick so a pecker like me can keep up with the conv. ( I make up for it by talking fast and often ) :lol: :lol:


Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2006, 1:35PM
by DanEpps
Joe Stone wrote:Dan,

Post the poll in the Ecab forum, not enough views here to get good participation. In your expert opinion Dan, how hard would this be to do?? If people use it can you get some money back for the time?

I type even slower than you, Joe :) , the poll is already in this forum.

The degree of difficulty is not that great, especially for a catalog or brochure. The biggest thing would be for members to, for lack of a better term, elect a committee of members who would have final approval over the design of the catalog and/or brochure.

I would produce a draft and send it to the committee for remarks/changes/approval. Once they approve the design, it could be made available to the general membership. All together the design time would take only a couple of hours.

Video would take slightly longer to produce but follows the same process. Depending on the complexity of the video, editing and producing could take as long 10-20 hours.

I often joke about a video I put together for my son's baseball team one year. I told everyone that the VHS tape had 112 1/2 hours of video on it. It started with 12 hours of raw video, I had 100 hours of editing in it and the final video was 1/2 hour long. Of course that was a pretty complex project--attaching flames to a baseball when some hit a homerun, putting just the right music and queueing it to the video at just the right frame, etc.

Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2006, 1:49PM
by Mitch Cain

Good thing you left,

Joe...I hear that ALL the time :D :D

Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2006, 2:39PM
by Joe Stone

There is NO Way you type slower than I do. I think a general video with a little narative to go with like Ken's finishing videos for the members. Design in spots where the direct seller can put in a personal intro of sorts, then the main video, then a personal closing with renderings of the project. I think this would greatly help Mitch and smaller guys look and feel much bigger. I did not think the catalog would be hard, the video will be more expersive for sure. I think we should run this by the Therm team to make sure they are not opposed. We are essentially piggybacking their products and services for these types of ideas so they should have some input as well. They would more than likely help with some parts if they are not opposed to the idea.


I hear it every day, and that's usually from family. :lol: :lol:

Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2006, 2:46PM
by Mitch Cain
I'm so glad this is finally picking up some steam. I tried to get this going when the furniture network became available but it seemed to fall on deaf ears. Bill Rutherford called Ken and via that call I was able to use some of the images from the furniture network on my web site. If you look over my site, you will see that I am just going public and really putting my eggs in this basket. So to say that I am \"motivated\" or have a stake in the success of these programs is an understatement...I NEED this to work!!

here's my site: - its still rough but its getting there...


Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2006, 3:07PM
by DanEpps
Joe Stone wrote:I think we should run this by the Therm team to make sure they are not opposed. We are essentially piggybacking their products and services for these types of ideas so they should have some input as well. They would more than likely help with some parts if they are not opposed to the idea.

When I first started the eCabWorld website and began to create some training materials for version 4 (I got side tracked by other stuff like my wife's surgery, my eye surgery, etc), Ken was very supportive and encouraging of my efforts.

I don't think there will be any opposition from Thermwood, quite the opposite, I think we will receive overwhelming support in this endeavor. After all, this is an extension of the ideas Ken put forward in his latest book. We are just putting them into motion.

The designs belong to the member's who create them so they have the say in their use in a catalog or brochure. Any mention of Thermwood or eCabinet Systems would be done with reference to trademarks and/or copyrights. Likewise, member's designs should be referenced with any copyrights or intellectual property rights.

One thing that you can start doing right away is answering the questions in the attached Strength, Weakness, Opportunity, and Threat (SWOT) analysis. This is a Word document that I downloaded from Microsoft that you can use to start your battle against the "box sellers".

Let me know if you don't have Word and I can make a text file of it.

Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2006, 3:12PM
by Joe Stone

I remeber the same thing with the furnature network. I still think it has great potential for me and others as well, you are right it did die off quickly in enthusiasm. These things are too important to overlook as being integral power for the small guys. Do to our bad economic climate a lot of small guys have already folded with more to come, I am planning to push cutting services to help those who see the power of this type of system to stick around. I think the slow times here will make most shop continue to lay off. At some point you can't produce product any more. The very small guy (who I have been recently) always struggles to produce product at a competative level. I knew to stay around I would have to outsource a lot and ride it out. I have really got it hanging out there Mitch. I decided to get aggressive and attack, and I would love to be able to help others in my area weather the storm also. We can't let this one die out, lets stay on it through the show and fire it back up next week.

Posted: Mon, Aug 21 2006, 5:09PM
by Mitch Cain
I hear you Joe - I intend to keep this going and get some momentum behind it - Good luck at the show - I am not attending this time but I hope that I can glean enough about what's going on from reading this and all the other forums to stay abreast of things - I just will miss the networking opportunity and the chance to meet all you guys -

the day will come I s'pose...

Posted: Tue, Aug 22 2006, 2:56AM
by Paul Ellis
Mitch wrote
Having a program like this is a very real weapon for us little guys, but having these great designs just sit there because we can't sway some lost soul with a KraftMaid catalog in her hand is not helping anybody. Like Joe posted above, this sounds terribly self-serving and to some degree, it is,

Mitch (and Dan and Joe),
Mitch , of course all of us have to be self-serving, otherwise none of us would be in business. The difference is we are self-serving NOT selfish.
All of you, please run with this thing and please do not be discouraged by the apparent 'lack of response/interest'. Some people are destined to be forerunners and others follow. Sometimes a person just need a seed of an idea and then come forward with something brilliant.

I feel proud to be a part of this extended family! :D


Posted: Tue, Aug 22 2006, 6:59AM
by Joe Stone

To start- it's mostly Dan as usual. I do think there are some other areas such as this we can explore as a group to help our competative edge. On this one I promise to chew on as many ers as I have to so we can put this forward, even if Dan does the work and I pay for it (if I had any comparable wizzard like skills I would offer them too, but???). We will let everyone what hppens later this week at IWF.

Posted: Tue, Aug 22 2006, 7:04AM
by Mitch Cain
to follow up what Joe said above - I DO have some pretty good computer skills (23 years in the business... :shock: ) , but not all the latest software for this stuff that Dan has - if you need any help Dan just let me know - I also am willing to help pay for the final outcome - I don't want to just sit on my a$$ and let everyone else do all the work... :roll: