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Italian Renaissance Credenza

Posted: Fri, Oct 27 2006, 7:49AM
by Kerry Fullington
Roughly, what would some of you price the Italian Renaissance Credenza available through the Thermwood Furniture Network in your area?

You have 8 hours of router time and the rental for the carving programs,
The cost of the TV lift,
The cost of finishing materials from Thermwood
Your basic lumber, hardware etc.
Labor, overhead and profit.

Don't spend a lot of time I just want a ballpark.

Kerry

Posted: Fri, Oct 27 2006, 7:06PM
by David Norton
Kerry, just from your description I wouldn't build this piece for less than $8,000.00

Posted: Fri, Oct 27 2006, 7:19PM
by Kerry Fullington
David,
You play in a bigger ballpark than I do. Mine was $3500 and I got laughed at by two different customers.
Kerry

Posted: Fri, Oct 27 2006, 8:18PM
by DanEpps
I have talked to a couple of folks about prices they had gotten on having it outsourced (I don't know by whom and wouldn't say here if I did of course :wink: ) and the cutting, materials and delivery price was around $3500 unfinished and unassembled.

I don't know what part of the country the cutting was in and where it was being delivered to.

Posted: Sat, Oct 28 2006, 8:14AM
by Kerry Fullington
Dan,
I guess I had better get with someone to get some numbers on cutting the carvings. If the carvings for that piece are anywhere near what you are saying then my furniture career is over before I build my first credenza.
I wouldn't have anything cut but the carvings because I will make some changes and substitute solid wood for all of the exposed end panels, top and doors. I don't want to sell furniture with plywood and edge banding showing. I also think it might make a difference who is having to glue up the blanks for the carvings. They may be charging a pretty high percentage for the tooling.
I really want to build this piece, it is a wonderful design and has a great look using Thermwood's finishing schedule, but if I can't keep the selling price under $4000 then I would most likely get to keep it and our 19\" TV that my wife bought back in 1985 won't fit in it.
Kerry

Posted: Sat, Oct 28 2006, 9:06AM
by DanEpps
Those were for all materials but I'm not sure about hardware.

Material prices probably have a lot to do with the price as well as the glue up for the moldings as you said.

You didn't get to go to IWF did you? The door construction on those is really nice and looks like 2\" solid wood.

Ken said they had made several changes to the construction, mainly to accomodate the lift mechanism and the weight of the TV.

Regardless of what you make them from, I do think they would have to be sold as boutique or studio pieces though.

How much finish and assembly time did you put into your estimate?

Posted: Sat, Oct 28 2006, 9:40AM
by Kerry Fullington
Dan, I actually haven't spent any time estimating this piece. I had shown pictures of it to a couple of people to get them interested. they both loved it and wanted a ball park and I gave them the $3500 to $4000 explaining the cost of the lift and the fact that I didn't have solid numbers on the custom carvings. They both declined saying they were thinking it should be in the $1500 to $2000 range which we know is impossible. I want to build one because I think having the real thing to look at as opposed to a picture will make the difference but if my costs are to be as high as you are stating it would be a waste of time. I am still going to look into it .
The solid wood thing is mainly the fact that I don't have decent edge banding equipment. I also think that edge banding isn't something that should be used in a piece that hopefully is heirloom quality. Just an \"Old Fart\" thing. Looking like 2\" lumber isn't the same thing as being.
Kerry

Posted: Sat, Oct 28 2006, 9:58AM
by DanEpps
I also think that edge banding isn't something that should be used in a piece that hopefully is heirloom quality. Just an \"Old Fart\" thing. Looking like 2\" lumber isn't the same thing as being.


I hear you and I agree 100%!!!

Like I told a friend once when he asked me why I was putting so much detail work on the underside of my 1934 Ford pickup street rod. He said \"Nobody will no it is there\" and I answered \"I will!\"

Posted: Sun, Oct 29 2006, 6:04PM
by Glenn Van Reason
Reminds me of a saying I was told years ago, \"Quality remains long after the price is forgotten\".

In the world of $49 dvd players and cheap consumables people don't place much value in the trades of the skilled craftsman.

Posted: Sun, Oct 29 2006, 6:39PM
by Kerry Fullington
Glenn,
We all have to choose where we will and won't compromise to remain competitive and those choices seem to change often. There are also many new skills that have been introduced because of the changes in todays market. Computer design comes to mind. I like to \"Draw\" everything in eCabinets and there are some out there I am sure that think there it is much more \"artful\" with pencil and paper. I also feel that there is a skill in learning the programming and operation of a cnc router. I would love the chance to practice that skill. My personality would prefer that to sitting, hand carving pieces.
One of the biggest challenges to any of us today is finding our market. We have to search out the people that want to buy what we have to sell. I have been trying to compete in someone else's market and I am not equipped for it. I am still trying to find a balance of what the people seem to want (cheep and fast) and what I want to build (challenging, interesting).

I want to add that I think that is what this Design Sharing and the Furniture Network are all about. We are being offered one of a kind designs and carvings to use and I want to find a way to take advantage of that. I would never be able to commission these designs or carvings on my own.

Kerry

Posted: Mon, Oct 30 2006, 9:29AM
by Dean Fehribach
The size of the market for this piece is very, very small. To extend what Glenn touched on, there are $49 DVD players, but I recently paid $250 for mine because it has a burner that supports DVD-R and DVD+R discs. Needless to say, I didn't buy it at Walmart.

I think the clientele for a piece like this is the market group that would shop at Harrad's or Saks 5th Avenue. Gonna be tough to find in a lot of areas.

Surely there are some oil tycoons (or Presidents) around Texas someplace! :lol:

Re:

Posted: Mon, Oct 30 2006, 10:32AM
by DanEpps
Kerry Fullington wrote:Glenn,
We all have to choose where we will and won't compromise to remain competitive and those choices seem to change often. There are also many new skills that have been introduced because of the changes in todays market. Computer design comes to mind. I like to "Draw" everything in eCabinets and there are some out there I am sure that think there it is much more "artful" with pencil and paper. I also feel that there is a skill in learning the programming and operation of a cnc router. I would love the chance to practice that skill. My personality would prefer that to sitting, hand carving pieces.
One of the biggest challenges to any of us today is finding our market. We have to search out the people that want to buy what we have to sell. I have been trying to compete in someone else's market and I am not equipped for it. I am still trying to find a balance of what the people seem to want (cheep and fast) and what I want to build (challenging, interesting).

I want to add that I think that is what this Design Sharing and the Furniture Network are all about. We are being offered one of a kind designs and carvings to use and I want to find a way to take advantage of that. I would never be able to commission these designs or carvings on my own.

Kerry


Ah yes, that never ending search for balance and harmony. The yin (cheap and fast) and yang (challenging and interesting) that seem to be opposite forces that must coexist.

Our task is to find yang within yin and to show our clientele where yin exists within yang.

8)

Posted: Mon, Oct 30 2006, 12:25PM
by Jean G Voyer
Kerry,

I think you are in a part of Texas that is far from being the type of clients you should be serving. Maybe you should think about moving.
And if that is not possible, you should try to open a market from where you are. Send your products to Dallas or Houston.
Also I am pretty sure there are a lot of members here on the forum who could use your services at a price that you deserve. We know and we have seen what you can do.
I know of a lot of peoples who could use the quality of your services right now and right here in Calgary, prices wouldnt matter. If it wasn't from the working permit problems and the import factor.
You probably would end up doing things that are up to your capabilities.

Posted: Thu, Nov 02 2006, 8:22PM
by Paul Huff
Kerry
Geron Stricklin and I talked about your post and both agreed that your price was in line and that it should be marketed as furniture with a few twist. The customer can choose wood type, custom sizes and colors. (try that in a furniture store)

Here are some prices to help you calculate the cost. Geron is offering to cut the carvings based on Thermwood’s estimated machine time. The cost will be $80 an hour for machine time and will include gluing the material up in that price also. The material will be whatever it cost nothing will be added to that. There will be a setup fee for anything done on the rotary playback.

We do most of our work in Lubbock Texas so we are not that far away.

I hope this helps.

Kerry,

Posted: Fri, Nov 03 2006, 12:26PM
by Nicholas Slovacek
I am from the east Texas panhandle, Booker, and over in that area the people expect quality. Few are in a posistion to pay for it. But there are some. To market a custom piece of furniture in the middle of nowhere requires a long reach and lots of marketing. I feel your price was low for most parts of the country say the north east or Florida, but for your location it sounds about right. Keep marketing and the oppertunity will come. After all it aint being made in China.