What Would You Like to See in Design Sharing?

Place to discuss only the "Design Sharing" aspects of the eCabinet Systems software.

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Kerry Fullington
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What Would You Like to See in Design Sharing?

Postby Kerry Fullington » Tue, Jul 10 2007, 7:34AM

I could be wrong but it seems there is not much interest from members in Design Sharing. What would members like to see available through Sharing, vent hoods, islands, mantels, furniture pieces (hutches, tables, desks, beds, armoires) or more full cabinet libraries utilizing different construction techniques? Would you like a collection of specialty cabinets using radius and clipped corners and columns, refrigerator cabinet using pediments, vanities with legs? Would you like more closet and garage systems such as the suspended systems? Do you want architectural items such as mantels, over mantels, wainscot and paneled walls? Would you like to see display items such as passage and entry doors and columns? I would like to see a broad selection of all these things available. How do we get the ball rolling on this and increase participation?
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Design Sharing

Postby Will Williamson » Thu, Jul 12 2007, 9:37AM

I,m new to participating in thermwood program even though I've been following the progress for years I have a large collections of designs mostly tables , chairs . mantles . entry doors. interior doors . I noticed that 44 people have viewed this post and no reply .Its obvious that people are scared, not of sharing thier designs but of the designs being stolen.My self i,m not scared of my design being stolen it is the concept that I am protective of .My engineering concept is the basis that my particular piece is designed around.Once you understand my concept the design is very easy to change and call your own .I,ve been watching your participation in this program a long time and I would like to thank you for time and your opinion it has been a great help.
We need designs of every imaginable kind tables ,chairs ,beds ,couches, coffee tables end tables
What we need is a way for the general public to view everyones designs so that some one can come to me and say Hey Will I really like Kerry's design can you build it for me. and that is enough of my B.S. for today but I,ll be back
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Al Navas
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Re: Design Sharing

Postby Al Navas » Thu, Jul 12 2007, 11:51AM

Will Williamson wrote:... Its obvious that people are scared, not of sharing thier designs but of the designs being stolen...

Will,

I read Kerry's post in a totally different light - but I know that he will set me straight if I am wrong. This is strictly my interpretation:

What did I read in Kerry's post? Two things:

1. I believe his question addresses why someone who needs a design does not purchase one of the libraries available in the program. In other words, WHY are people not buying more libraries? Is it simply that nothing is available that attracts people? Is it the selling price? Is it something else???

and

2. Your question: Why are more people not submitting their designs to the program? This issue might be secondary, if what IS available is NOT what people NEED or WANT.

I believe that Kerry hit it on the head, when he asked WHAT is it that people need. I have been thinking about this for some time, and I might post something in the near future. This is a crucial issue, as it gets to the root cause of lack of participation, whether on the buyers' side, or simply on availability.

Is it possible that a simple answer is marketing? Or pricing? Or... someone please chime in...


Al

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Postby Kerry Fullington » Thu, Jul 12 2007, 12:40PM

Al,
Actually I have sold more libraries than I ever dreamed I might and that is why I am asking why there is not any more participation in this program. For this program to work there needs to be many libraries covering all construction methods and techniques. There are several members that say they have extensive libraries and I simply wonder why they don't add them to the program. The same goes for specialty cabinets, furniture and mill work items. If you have a good design then share it. As for what Will stated, that some are afraid of design theft. when you place the design in sharing then you are paid for it's use. This in effect pays you for the time you used creating the original design for your customer.
I guess what I really should ask is if there is an interest among members in the design sharing program? If there were more items to choose from would you use them and what items are members most interested in?
Why are you not participating in the Design Sharing Program?
I am curious after a year why more people haven't jumped on the band wagon.

Kerry

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Postby Al Navas » Thu, Jul 12 2007, 4:49PM

See, I WAS wrong! Sorry guys. And Will was perfectly on the money reading your post, in terms of the intent of the post.

For Will: I don't think it is related to fear that something untoward might happen to your design(s). On this I agree with Kerry.

Back to the question, Kerry. I have no idea, but I am a fairly new guy using eCabs. Will I participate in the future? I am pretty certain that I will, once I get enough stuff created so that my \"library\" might have some meat (and potatoes, and even some desert...).

I wonder if marketing of the concept is what is missing? And advertising the rewards of being in the program? I have read at least one (and maybe two?) report(s) in the eCabinet Systems Member Magazine. Is this enough? Maybe not. Is there something that Thermwood and the eCabinet Systems people can do to enlarge the program?

I have no idea. In many cases, marketing seems to be the key. I am just learning, and hoping that I can make a go of this thing called cabinetmaking, as I am having a ball!!!


Al

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Jason Susnjara
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Re: Design Sharing

Postby Jason Susnjara » Fri, Jul 13 2007, 8:09AM

Will Williamson wrote:Its obvious that people are scared, not of sharing their designs but of the designs being stolen.


When the design sharing libraries are created, each cabinet is tagged with the designers name. This will let us know if someone purchases a library and gives that library to another member to use.

The first area that the eCabinet instructor goes over is design sharing. He shows how to buy and use the libraries available. This shows the users that you can easily create a job instead of having to construct your own set of cabinets. I think that when we simplify the room layout area that design sharing is only going to get better. There are going to be a lot of new members that want to auto fill a room in a very short time and purchasing a design sharing library will help them out.

I think the main problem with not seeing as many libraries other than what we have now is because of time. You guys are busy and the last thing you are worried about is creating a library to sell. I noticed that there are some members that will create libraries for other members to submit for a design fee. I think this is great and it really shows how eCabinets is a Co-Op.
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Participation

Postby Will Williamson » Sat, Jul 14 2007, 8:18AM

The real proplem here is that there only Four people even discussing this sitiuation . I dropped in on this design sharing forum because I am interested in design sharing and I am in the learning process . I should not have made a general statement about (people are scared ) I should have said that I am unsure and that I will not move forward until I gain some insight. Thanks Kerry I'm encouraged knowing that your catalog sales are good
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Postby Kerry Fullington » Sat, Jul 14 2007, 6:20PM

Will,
That was my reason for starting this thread. There just doesn't seem to be much interest in Design Sharing. I think Jason hit the nail on the head, it takes time to develop a library and projects for make them ready for design sharing and we are all short of time. The thing is that if there were many designs available for sharing it would help us all with this time problem. This would be a fantastic resource if we could get the ball rolling. There would be nothing like it available from any other software.

Kerry

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Postby Gene Kimmi » Sat, Jul 14 2007, 7:41PM

I think one thing that might be keeping people from buying libraries is their pride. When I get a kitchen, bathroom, or mantle peice designed I like being able to say I designed it. I know I could probably make more money buying designs and using more of my time building instead of designing.

I think this compares a lot to outsourcing cabinet parts. Most will say you can buy doors and drawers cheaper than you can make them, but I have too much pride in my work to do that. I try to outsource as little as possible.
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Postby Kerry Fullington » Sun, Jul 15 2007, 8:56AM

Gene,
I understand what you are saying but I realized a while back that there are very few truly original Ideas and designs out there. We all follow trends set by magazines and design books (at our customers demands). We add design elements that we have grown to love through our own personnel tastes. (I like Georgian, Victorian and American Victorian architecture). We then have to temper those designs according to the limitations of our shops and skills. I don't carve so I have to find carved elements from vendors. This fact alone takes away from any original idea I have had because everyone uses these same carving elements. The only thing original about any of our designs is how we group these elements in a room, the bump ins and bump outs, height and depth changes and decorative items added as corners and onlays and I can guarantee you it has probably already been done by someone else. It is just like song writers, they use the same notes and rules and arrange them different ways to hopefully create an original song but most of the time you have heard the same thing before, it is just a different voice singing it. I like to run all of my own moldings. The knives I have are not original patterns but taken from moldings used in the architectural periods that I mentioned above. They give my work some look of originality but in truth I borrowed the ideas.
I used to think it important to build my own doors and I still do on small jobs and on the rare occasion when the customer wants something that is not available from the door manufacturers but if my customer picks the profiles that are used in a Conestoga CRP-10 door (which most do) then Conestoga might as well build those doors because quite honestly, their quality is better than mine using the equipment that I have.
Most customers will not allow us the time nor pay us enough to be original. We have to make a living at this so we borrow designs that we, or our customers have seen in a magazine or competitors brochure and we group our boxes together to fit in in that customers room hoping to simulate what the customer wants.
All of this was to say that using Design Sharing does not diminish your ability to be creative. It is just another \"Idea Book\" like those that all of our customers bring to us to to start the design process.

Kerry

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Postby DanEpps » Sun, Jul 15 2007, 9:51AM

Very well said Kerry.

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Postby Joe Stone » Sun, Jul 15 2007, 8:49PM

I think there are a combination of resons for the lack of participation. Most of which you have already covered. I think a big one is there are an awful lot of people in the program who do not have good business sense. I was perfectly capable of working on my own library after months of playing around combined with finally taking the Ecab class in Dale. I simply thought it was too cheap to pass up. The amount of time invested compared to the price is a no brainer for me. I purchased one Kerry's and one of Bill's and was happy with both.

The only issue I see is not having the type of variety in product that members need along with constrution methods set up for best machining at the router. The lack of any dowel construction is a problem for me. I know nesting is not the best way to produce dowel constrution but I would have some customers doing this if I had a library to give/sell them. I have a construction borer so I am equiped for this, I use it for some production business that I do not use Ecab for. The commercial market locally is always spec'd as 8mm dowel and the shops have told me they do not wish to attempt to \"educate\" the architechts on Bdado.

I have been working on releasing my own library to use all types of materials, various combinations within those materials groups( 1/4\" backs vs 3/4\" all around ). There are settings for what I feel is effective machining that need to be changed depending on those variations.....etc. I will be including edge banding of various types that group sensibly with the materials groupings I mentioned. The hard part of putting such a thing together is having enough time under your belt using these various materials and methods so your library is effective. You are offering your expertise as a paid consultant when creating a library, if you have little experience you should not fool yourself into believing you are qualified. That is why I have waited a while and learned what works well and what does not through working with our cutting customers.

I think design sharing and production sharing go hand in hand. I think people can learn the layout and batch areas of the software fairly easily. If they have a resizable library of extended seeds with the materials they like to use that have settings already done for them they can do the simpler things themselves. Without having a machine it is not easy to make your own library that will CNC the way you want.

I guess we will see if this approach helps the new users with their learning curve and encourages more customers to use the cutting shops out there for producing reliable product for them. I am having to do this individually for customers of mine and the time is killing me, once it is done for my uses I am with Kerry in that I may as well post it for others to use and be paid a little for the effort.

Joe
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Postby Jerry McClain » Thu, Jul 26 2007, 2:57PM

This may be the wrong way of thinking but what I worry about is the cabinet construction at the basic level. I know what my guys like to see and do coming off the cnc. If I have to take the time to reconfigure a library to fit the shop guys than why not just develop my entire library all on my own.
JLM

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Postby Mitch Cain » Fri, Jul 27 2007, 7:10AM

I am surprised that more people haven't put their designs into the program. I am working on a library right now of furniture pieces to put into the program and the only thing that holds me up is time to work on them ( and being a slow learner with the darn shape manager and part editor). Its a really busy time for me with the many irons I have in the fire and my \"alone time\" with eCabinets is pretty limited. I rarely have the \"free\" time to just make a design that I am not quoting or building.

Rest assured, I will have one or more libraries up there before the year is out.
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Postby Rick Palechuk » Fri, Jul 27 2007, 9:12AM

I think alot of us feel your pain Mitch. The key thing to remember is that when you hit on a good design it's going to make money for you. It's like investing for the future, time spent and some luck should pay off.


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