Some Part editor questions

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Mark McCallum
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Location: Sydney Aust

Some Part editor questions

Postby Mark McCallum » Thu, Jul 12 2018, 10:00AM

Hi Guys
Doing a job in the part editor
part editor constraints 3.JPG
Visual constraints disappear when re entering the CM


Question 1
Can anyone else reproduce this?
Take a shelf or an end into the part editor.
draw a circle, make sure it’s not touching the edges
Select and pocket it
save and return to the main
Go to the constraints manager.
constrain the circle horizontally.
Edit the horizontal size so that the circle / pocket goes past the edge of the end or shelf, (As per some types of flap hinges flap hinges.
Save constraints return to the main.
Highlight and return to the constraints manager, the pocket remains positioned but the constraints have disappeared.
If there are other constraints they all will disappear, making it hard to readjust the sizes
Re applying the sizes seems to stick the second time




Question 2
part-editor-constraints-2.jpg
Door goes to part editor but doesn't go to CM

Can anyone else reproduce this or perhaps I'm missing a step ?
Make a door from the side menu.
Take it to the part editor put some pockets on to it.
Turn it green hatch and try and take it to the constraints manager
It isn’t recognized by the constraint manager.
It seems strange that it can go to the part editor but not the constraints manager.

Associating it to a cabinet has the same results.

However, if it is associated to a cabinet, it will take another part into the constraints editor (if there are other edited parts, shelf or end or deck) instead of the selected door even if none are selected.
It would appear to remember the last edited part, because if you remove all part editor cuts to standard cabinet parts via the part editor it will still call The previously edited part into the constraint manager without the cuts which normally it wouldn't do.
Any help appreciated
Thanks
Mark

Ralph Balanik
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Re: Some Part editor questions

Postby Ralph Balanik » Thu, Jul 12 2018, 11:42AM

Hi Mark,
I did produce similar results to yours. I did a cut the same as yours on the left side of a base cabinet. I constained horizontal, vertical, and radius dimensions, then exited. When I returned all dimensions were gone. I went back and entered the constraints again and exited. when I returned 2 out of 3 constraints of the original constraints reappeared as well as the new ones. I had 2 identical horizontal and two identical vertical dimensions and one radius.

I did a similar cut on the right side of the cabinet. This time I only lost the radius after exiting and returning. From past experience, it seems to me that the order in which the constraints are applied may influence the results.

I created a door from the side menu but did not turn it green. It would not come up in constraint manager. Other parts were there as per your experience . I have not had any reason in my past jobs to create a door using the side menu so I cannot see the value in that option, so feel free to enlighten me. :) I chose a door from the door editor on top a was able to do a cutout and take it to constraint manager. I believe any parts that have part editor cuts and contraints applied are saved in the contraint manager menu and it displays the first one in the list if there are multiple parts. Since the door wasn't there from the side menu it didn't get picked :?

Mark McCallum
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Posts: 277
Joined: Thu, Jun 16 2005, 7:53PM
Location: Sydney Aust

Re: Some Part editor questions

Postby Mark McCallum » Thu, Jul 12 2018, 5:07PM

Hi Ralph
Thanks for testing that out.
The radius overlapping the edge is definitely triggering the disappearing dimensions for us.

From past experience, it seems to me that the order in which the constraints are applied may influence the results.


Yes I agree that the order of placing then moving / constraining also seems to affect something.
I again, am not sure what triggers it.
But intermittently another thing that sort of happens, is that we apply constraints H,V, Rad to the part editor items, all at once in the Constraints Manager, and if there's a circle present, then you cant adjust the radius.
Like you select it,
enter the new rad,
Press enter and nothing happens.
Sometimes if you the do the vertical and horizontal adjustment first then the radius becomes active again.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ahh... Ralph, as to "enlightenment" I suggest, ............... you see your local religious practitioner.
All you get from me is confusion and malformed ideas :)

Yes, we started off with a standard door then behind applied and adjusted partitioning, flip ops, adjustable shelves, etcetera.
Had to adjust something and the door size was wrong or disappeared, (cant remember)
Went to reapply door, but of course, we couldn't select the entire opening :?

So we wouldn't have to delete and reapply the items behind the door, to save time, I suggested an applied door, (did you notice those 3 little words), "to save time" :)
And here we are 4 or 5 hours later. :)

The positives are, we have isolated, tracked down and brought out into the light an "unusual occurrence". :) (Unusual occurrence, Sounds a bit englightening )

Maybe the guru's will have a look at it :)

All in a days work using Ecabs :joker: :joker:

Mark McCallum
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Posts: 277
Joined: Thu, Jun 16 2005, 7:53PM
Location: Sydney Aust

Re: Some Part editor questions

Postby Mark McCallum » Thu, Jul 12 2018, 8:43PM

Hi again Ralph

This is the project we are working on.
It actually for my sons design project for his final year at high school.
(no.... I'm not doing it for him, It's his design, I'm just helping him implement it.)
(No ...... He hates wood dust, he's not following in my shoes, he want to go to uni and study business or something)
(I think he wants to make money......... Not work hard.) :)

See below, we attached two additional doors in the middle, because we couldn't add them through the normal door editor.
We are using a wing hinge in the middle with 35mm cups so we will apply them in the part editor.
We have to change our plans now and I will probably combine 2 units into an assembly and turn off the parts we don't need.
Ecabs is awesome......... but Yes, behind your next idea.........there is always
the work around
:joker: :joker:


Compact-unit1.jpg

Mark McCallum
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Posts: 277
Joined: Thu, Jun 16 2005, 7:53PM
Location: Sydney Aust

Re: Some Part editor questions

Postby Mark McCallum » Fri, Jul 13 2018, 3:03AM

Last one I think .

Formulas don't appear be working properly either on holes
Eg H/2 - 330 = random result.

That's it, its Friday, Ive had enough. :)

Goin Home :roll:

Ralph Balanik
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Re: Some Part editor questions

Postby Ralph Balanik » Fri, Jul 13 2018, 8:23AM

Do you have any idea how long it took me to come up with the word enlightenment. I must say I enjoyed your take on that, I will get out the dictionary before my next response see what else I can find.

Ralph Balanik
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Joined: Fri, Jul 30 2010, 5:33PM
Company Name: Ralph Balanik
Country: CANADA

Re: Some Part editor questions

Postby Ralph Balanik » Fri, Jul 13 2018, 9:16AM

Here's another. I have been "ruminating" on the phrase "to save time". I actually did a search on the forum and you are the only one who used those three words in that order. Please"enlighten" if you care to :)

Mark McCallum
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Posts: 277
Joined: Thu, Jun 16 2005, 7:53PM
Location: Sydney Aust

Re: Some Part editor questions

Postby Mark McCallum » Mon, Jul 16 2018, 8:35AM

Hi Ralph.
It must of been a slip of the tongue or a mis-typed sentence, because,.... I don't know what it means. :?
I only try to use eCabs to achieve a result....... not to make my life easier. :lol:

Ralph Balanik
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Joined: Fri, Jul 30 2010, 5:33PM
Company Name: Ralph Balanik
Country: CANADA

Re: Some Part editor questions

Postby Ralph Balanik » Mon, Jul 16 2018, 3:26PM

Hi Mark,
Still "ruminating" :(

I tried several items out of the right menu to see if constraint manager worked with anything and I found that even when there were "legitimate" part editor cuts with legitimate constraints the program gives me the "mess"age
part editor cuts..JPG


The picture with the holes is a drawer that I chose from my drawer library that I created. The holes are created and constained if I go to the drawer box editor. I brought this drawer from my library by selecting "drawer box" from the right hand menu and got the above result. I tried to do cuts and constaints with "display panel","Display Board" and "Door" all from the right hand menu. You can take parts into part editor and cut whatever you want but it seems the constraints cannot be applied to any thing.

This reminds me of a line in that famous Eagles song "Hotel California". "You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"

Hope someone in programming might respond and "enlighten" us.

Ralph Balanik
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Posts: 180
Joined: Fri, Jul 30 2010, 5:33PM
Company Name: Ralph Balanik
Country: CANADA

Re: Some Part editor questions

Postby Ralph Balanik » Mon, Jul 16 2018, 3:27PM

:)

Daniel Vonderheide
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Re: Some Part editor questions

Postby Daniel Vonderheide » Tue, Jul 17 2018, 10:59AM

Hope these help.

Answer for Question 1- When you create a cut in a part it is assigned certain "markers" at locations on the cut and these are the points you can constrain to. There are different types of markers, drill, route, outline, raw, etc. When you take a cut that is internal to the part and then have it touch the edge, it can change the type of marker it is using (from drill to route or to outline depending on the circumstances). When you exit the Constraint Manager, the part is rebuilt and reanalyzed, If the marker has changed types and a constraint used that marker, then the constraint is no longer valid and is removed.

Answer for Question 2- Doors and Drawers and panels that are added from the right hand flyout menu cannot be resized therefore they do not need constraints to keep them in a certain location on the piece. Because of this fact, we have never allowed them to be taken into the constraint manager.

Ralph Balanik
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Joined: Fri, Jul 30 2010, 5:33PM
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Re: Some Part editor questions

Postby Ralph Balanik » Tue, Jul 17 2018, 3:14PM

Daniel,
ANswer #1- Is pocketing a drill or a route, say for a KD/RTA fitting or a cup hinge? Once the type of marker is established can it then be constrained or can constraints not be applied to all markers as you have listed? Or are you suggesting that constraints would have to simply be reapplied after regeneration and that is the solution to viewing the constraints? In my attempt to constrain cutouts made in the above excercise, the constraints applied to the cutouts were performed, but once I closed the constraint manger then opened it again, the dimesions of the constaints were not on the page, at least not all of them. When I entered the info a second time both sets of info came back onto the page.

Answer #2- When you select a door from the right hand menu you cannot put hinges on it from a menu. You can cut pockets into it but you cannot size them or locate them. You can do this if you select a door for a cabinet in the "cabinet editor"-"door editor" menus.

When you create a complex cabinet with interior features and want to put a single door on it often times you cannot because interior shelves or partitions split the opening and multiple doors is the order of the day. If the flyout menu on the right would allow constraints or at least have a menu option that allowed hinges and pulls to be applied it would be useful. You can put the door or doors on an opening before doing interior design but that can be a fragile thing that can get changed with the slip of the mouse.

Daniel Vonderheide
Thermwood Team
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Joined: Wed, May 17 2006, 11:25AM
Location: Thermwood

Re: Some Part editor questions

Postby Daniel Vonderheide » Wed, Jul 18 2018, 8:05AM

Answer 1- From my understanding, all internal markers are drill markers. Once you move the cut to intersect the outline of the part, the markers change to either a route marker or a outline marker depending on if it was a depth cut or a through cut. The constraints that are applied to the original markers stay on the screen until you accept the changes. At that time, the part is rebuilt and reanalyzed. When it sees that it has constraints that are applied to drill markers but those markers are no longer on the part, it drops the constraints. You can then reopen the constraint manager again and reapply new constraints to the route or outline markers and they will stay. The best way top describe it is that if you take any internal cuts and constrain them so they touch the outside of the part, you can expect to have to redo the constraints that are applied to the cut after you rebuild the part.

Answer 2- You are correct, you cannot put hinge patterns onto a door from the flyout menu. You can control the placement of your cutouts you apply in the part editor though. In the part editor you can type in the center location of a circle using X,Y coordinates and then the diameter when creating a basic circle. You can also go into the contour area and create specific geometry on a part that can be used in the part editor screen to create cuts and pockets. It's not nearly as easy as applying constraints but it can be done.

Ralph Balanik
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Re: Some Part editor questions

Postby Ralph Balanik » Wed, Jul 18 2018, 8:34AM

Daniel,
Thankyou for that explaination. It is not always obvious what is happening and sometimes the help menu may get overlooked.

Ralph Balanik
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Posts: 180
Joined: Fri, Jul 30 2010, 5:33PM
Company Name: Ralph Balanik
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Re: Some Part editor questions

Postby Ralph Balanik » Wed, Jul 18 2018, 2:01PM

Mark,

Could you "clarify" what part of the "hole" you are trying to constrain when your formula gets a random result and should I assume that the "hole" is circular in shape.


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