Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby Kerry Fullington » Mon, Mar 22 2010, 8:30PM

Sean,

Therefore in each of the above drawer systems, multiple hole patterns would need to be created.


I think that was what Dennis was getting at but in his email he did go on to say that his might be easier than what you have been doing to get the results you want.

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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby Nat Wheatley » Mon, Mar 22 2010, 8:35PM

Correction: After posting, I realized that the Grass 6035 (43mm tall) slide does have a different hole pattern than the 6036/6136/6236/6436 slides.
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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby Rick Deskins » Mon, Mar 22 2010, 9:37PM

The answer is universal irrespective of the type of metal sided drawer system you are using. The drawer front drilling pattern MUST be referenced from the inside of the carcase. (I note that the hinge cup holes in the back face of the door are referenced from the edge of the door)


So, if you want the pattern cut for drawer front and cabinet, however you do not include the drawer box in the cabinet (because it is outsourced). Where do you reference from then?
Note: When you say " MUST be referenced from the inside of the carcase", I think you are talking about the carcase of the drawer box.
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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby Sean Jakob » Mon, Mar 22 2010, 9:53PM

Rick
No, It must be reference from the inside of the carcase, not the drawer box carcase as you have suggested. It must be referenced from the inside of the parent cabinet's end (where the carcase part of the drawer slide attaches).

Even if the drawer boxes are outsourced, the end of the cabinet will still be drilled for the slide and it is the slide itself which determines the location of the holes in the back face of the drawer front, not the drawer box. So in a scenario where the user decides NOT to add a drawer box, the hole pattern itself should still generate drilling into the cabinet end (for the slide) and into the back face of the drawer front (for the fixing clips)

The ONLY time this will differ is if in the very rare case when you add an internal drawer box which resides behind a door. In this case, the user MAY wish to incorporate a "Drawer Box" "Right or Left Inset". The most common reason one might do this is so that the slide is packed out from the carcase end, so as to avoid collision between the slide and a door hinge.

In this scenario, yes, the front fixing clip holes will then need to be moved toward the centre of the cabinet by the amount set in the right/left Drawer box Inset.

I hope this clears this up

Sean

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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby jason galbraith » Mon, Mar 22 2010, 9:56PM

Not sure if we're on the same track but really the draw box - Melamine back(sometimes) and bottom- with metal sided draws is irrelevent. The clip ons for the draw front are associated more with the runner/slide which is affixed to the side of the cabinet and hence where the drilling for the draw front is associated to.

You beat me to it Sean:)
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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby Neville Bastian » Tue, Mar 23 2010, 5:42AM

Rick, I think you need a holiday. Get away from the snow and rain and spend a week with Jason Galbriath on the warm east coast of OZ. I'm sure he can get a range of Metal drawer sides from al cheapo to the top shelf ones.Hettich, Blum, Grass or whatever and do some playing around. I get confused myself as I am from the PVC plastic 4 fold drawers with stapled on plastic Runners era. Drawer fronts just pin them on. No worries except how long the pins are.

Its very hard to explain our issues unless you have to add these little critters.
Ok I was being sarcastic as Jason at Thermwood can't do without you. There is a program called Blum dynalog that works out the calculations on the Blum product. Its awhile since I used it but maybe someone has it but it does show in graphic form where the drawer front holes need to be and the ramifications if carcass height is changed, the drawer number changed and the drawer side heights varied. http://www.blum.com/au/en/01/40/40/index.php There is a free trial download.
The other issue of the drawer fronts loosing their details if drawer box changed is a real time waster and has bought many a ecabinet user to tears.

If this fails we may have to send a delegation over to Dale to show a real life demo on what happens when a client is about to sign off on a job with 20 drawers but then changes from a multitech drawer box to a innotech softclose drawer system. Then changes the drawer heights from being even to a big one on the bottom, mid size drawer then a 86mm on top. Then her girlfriend sitting next to her suggests that she changes the door/Drawer front style. Any guess on how long that takes?
Over to you guys. Where's my staple gun?
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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby Kerry Fullington » Tue, Mar 23 2010, 6:39AM

Regarding Rick's question about outourced drawer boxes.

How would you "Outsource" this kind of drawer. They are always outsourced as far as the sides go. You just cut the back and bottom, is that correct, so allowing for outsourced drawer boxes shouldn't be a problem.

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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby Forrest Chapman » Tue, Mar 23 2010, 6:58AM

Thats correct Kerry.

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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby Sean Jakob » Tue, Mar 23 2010, 11:56AM

Yep, That's correct. I couldn't imagine anyone using Metal Sided Drawer systems outsourcing their drawer boxes. You are correct, these generally simply consist of a base and a back.

Having said that, Hettich do offer a prefabricated drawer. I personally can't imagine anyone ordering one, but still, theres a lid for every pot isn't there.

In cases where it is an internal drawer (behind a door), one will usually cut a false front along with the base and back.

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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby jason galbraith » Tue, Mar 23 2010, 5:22PM

Ohh Neville, vinyl wrap draws.... mate, I could go evangelical on you about the woes and time wasting and offer you documents to prove that you are wasting your time and losing money by using them. But I digress:)

To those in America, I'm sure that you are very ingrained with the idea of face frames and fancy mouldings etc. But outside of the USA people find it absolutely insane that you would use a $200,000 machine to do dovetails. I mean it. Crackers. Nuts. Call it what you will but we would NEVER do it.

Outside of the USA, you will mostly find that the European influence of technical hinges and draw systems rule supreme, for their ease of use installation and manufacture. People want to have the latest and greatest in softclose draw systems with glass inserts and gallery rails. That would explain why there are so many European companies falling over themselves to try and outsmart their competition with the most advanced technology in accessory systems.

I have worked for two different kitchen manufacturing software companies over here, and I can tell you that ECABS as a free product is in fact a very,very good product and out performs one of the software packages i was involved with in a lot of ways. But I can also tell you that the other product would sell because you could look at a draw bank, change the reveal sizes, and what particular type of draw you wanted in it (including dovetails, but no-one was even remotely interested in that) on the fly. I used to spend quite a bit of time writing new formulas for new runners that would come out on the market just to cater to any company that might use them.

Hey, all I'm after is the ability to be able to get holes drilled in the back of my draw fronts without having to spend heaps of time doing it. Please, please, please make it happen. I know you have the ability to make it so, and you have the added bonus of not just making our lives a lot easier, you will be able to use it as a MAJOR selling point for Thermwood machinery in other places outside of America.
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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby Neville Bastian » Tue, Mar 23 2010, 7:20PM

Hi Jason,
I use Harns Multitech style drawer or Hettich innotech all the time. I just mentioned the style of drawer that we all used to use at one time that was a no brainer. Now we have moved on to pre-drilling we are reliant on Ecabinets and other software being flexible to use the runner we favour. The problem that Thermwood promotes is using the unused time of the Thermwood to make a few bucks doing machine work for other shops. Sometimes this actually pays the repayments. So with this in mind it is in Thermwoods interest to relook at this drawer system flexability and see how other kitchen software overcomes the problem and make theirs better. The problem won't go away and maybe at the moment its a small trickle of concern but it will soon become a flood as customers request this drawer style from their cabinetmakers. It may even become more popular than dovetail drawers in some parts?

Looks like no one wants to visit you from Dale, Jason. They have gone quite. Maybe they are waiting for the Oz distributor to give them some feedback. Haven't heard boo from them over here in the West. Maybe they are in stealth mode which is a bit different from the German and Italian CNC sale people.

All the best
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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby Paul Ford » Wed, Mar 24 2010, 12:38AM

Hi all,
Very interesting topic indeed. I haven't used eCabinets for a little while but I have been using it since V3.2 where the part editor wasn't even available. I do think it would be a huge benefit to Thermwood users in NZ and Australia to have the ability to drill the backs of drawers fronts, and for the Thermwood Sales guys it would almost be vital now. Something I have been wondering from a software programming perspective, can the drawer front fixing holes be associated from the drawer runner holes height ways?? The reason I ask this is I believe it would require fewer formulas in the programming for the guys at Thermwood. I haven't looked at a drawer set up drawing for quite some time as all the measurements for the runners are scrammbling around the inside of my head and have been for years.

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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby Bryan J Tanner » Wed, Mar 24 2010, 3:28AM

Hi Paul

Your right about the sales point of view. Another thing that would be good is to be able to edgeband the Drawer boxes.
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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby Paul Ford » Wed, Mar 24 2010, 3:40AM

Hi Bryan,
I would imagine with the way drawer boxes have been moving along since they first came in to eCabinets that edgebanding wouldn't be too far away.... Drawer front fixing has however been a very long time coming so hopefully that will be as high on the priority list

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Re: Drawer Slide Front Mounting Hole - Incorrect Orientation

Postby Sean Jakob » Wed, Mar 24 2010, 3:47AM

Bryan
I agree. To be honest, I was stunned to see that we can now add part operations, constraints and even make it vacuum and wash the carpets in my hallway, but yet we can't add edge banding or even add a User Part name to indicate edging on the labels.

And if we are on the topic of more drawer box features, occasionally we add melamine divisions (lengthways and sideways) into the drawer box (for things like large utensil sorting or spice racks etc), so thermwood could add that to the list too if the programmers are short on things to do.

Oh well, that's life, we can't have everything and I'll be tinkled pink if we could just have the Holes in the Back of the Drawer Front which is the topic of this forum.

So Bryan, would you benefit from holes being drilled into the bacl of the drawer fronts for metal sided drawer front fixing clips?


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