Problem with holes showing up

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Neville Bastian
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Company Name: Classic Cabinetry
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Re: Problem with holes showing up

Postby Neville Bastian » Fri, Mar 19 2010, 10:49PM

This a easy fix. Go frame less like the rest of the world.
Next big step is metric :lol:
I am joking guys. Frameless is such a better way on making cabinets. Its a shame people don't always want to pay for it.
Regards

Neville
Neville Australia

Gary Campbell
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Re: Problem with holes showing up

Postby Gary Campbell » Sat, Mar 20 2010, 9:27AM

Neville...
Good day to you. I have a clrification question for you.

Neville Bastian wrote: Its a shame people don't always want to pay for it.


Are you saying that in your part of the world frameless cabinets are MORE than framed versions?

TIA
Gary Campbell
ShopBot Tools Production Support

ShopBot (eCabinets) Link Training & Support

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Neville Bastian
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Location: Albany Western Australia
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Re: Problem with holes showing up

Postby Neville Bastian » Sat, Mar 20 2010, 8:56PM

Gary,
I would be surprised if I could find anyone who would use frameless cabinets in Australia. I started out as an apprentice using frameless and by the time I finished it we had a hybrid version of timber edge particleboard or as you may call it flakewood with a 3/8 timber edge then we attached a timber frame to the outside which we then laminated. By the mid 80's we had converted over to melamine coated std flakeboard with a melamine edge. Now our construction standard is either white melamine 16mm 5/8" on mdf or flakeboard High Moisture resistant. Never ply. Drawers are now either metal sided Hettich Multitech or Hettich Innotech soft close or the Blum etc equivalent. Never dovetailed and never requested. Can't buy from anyone.Hinges are heading towards soft close as a standard and no piano hinges most use the pie type hinge. No throw down bases all plastic legs in 70% of the cases.

I'm fairly sure South Africa and Kiwi Land is the same. When I did a trip to Italy a few years back I visited a few show rooms and they were all frameless. I think the UK would be the same. Maybe a few users from those countries could chip in with their countries way of doing things.

I am not saying our way is the best way but we have had shortages with cabinetmakers for most of my working life because people get sick of it. Also my state is big into mining so pay over the odds for a tradesman. Closer you are to the mining areas the higher the cabinetmakers wage. If you don't pay it they can leave the trade and drive a truck for $100K a year. The average wage for a cabinet maker here is $22.00 to $35.00 per hr.
I noticed the average wage in the US for a average tradesperson seems to be mid teens. You also seem to have access to Hispanics and other lower income people. We don't. Our social system here rewards those who loose their job and will pay unemployment forever. Hey I am getting off the subject. Yep frameless is king this neck of the woods. Speed of construction is the name of the game. I am just waiting for Thermwood to make a cabinetmaking robot. As long as it looks like Lara Croft. :)



By the way if anyone wants a job in OZ let me know.

So Gary whats your standard construction in your area. Any plans to change things?
Regards

Neville
Neville Australia

Gary Campbell
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Re: Problem with holes showing up

Postby Gary Campbell » Sat, Mar 20 2010, 10:07PM

Neville...
Thanks for the information. Its nice to hear how things are done on the other side of the planet. Over the years, I dont think our cabinetry has not been typical for the US as we dont really do kitchens. I have traditionally done solid wood furniture and cabinetry. It is only in the past few years that I have started using plywood. I have cut a couple dozen MDF doors for a wholesale client, but other than that have never used a sheet of fiber or particle core product. I have only used melamine once as it was designer mandated, but on a ply core. I have built and installed only 3 kitchens in 3 decades, the melamine product on a 90' yacht, one from solid teak that was over $175K and one from solid Alder. The majority of our drawers and ent. ctr. slide outs are solid maple dovetail built in house. I have installed a kitchen with Metabox draws, but have never built anything with them.

Now the changes. We have shifted our work 75%+ to wholesale cutting for other shops. This has caused us to develop multiple "styles" or design criteria to meet their individual specs. We now routinely cut both 19mm frameless along with framed using 12,16 and 19mm cases. Mostly from prefinished domestic Maple plywood. We also implement 4 brands of hardware, including the plastic legs (Hafele) which are a good product on many levels (no pun intended) Our standard hardware is BLUM with blumotion on all devices. We will be taking this newfound wholesale market and trying to develop it futher as we move our operation about 2K miles north to our home state of Michigan. Cabinetry there is much more traditional than here in S. Florida. We have made a deal to purchase an ATC demo machine from ShopBot to help us deal with the additional tooling required for the complete changeover to wholesale.

I think the value of the trades here in the US has declined in the last decade or so. Maybe the push towards higher education, or simply a lack of perceived value. I am sure that the "multinational workforce" helps keep the general wage lower than in places it doesnt exist, but highly skilled tradespersons seem to draw a wage in the mid to high $20's, at least while there was an abundance of work.

I may have to take you up on the job offer in the future, as I am the cabinetmaking robot. Please have Lara Croft available as my assistant!
Take care, its been great chatting.
Gary
Gary Campbell
ShopBot Tools Production Support

ShopBot (eCabinets) Link Training & Support

Tom Nienow
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Hardware not being applied to cabinets

Postby Tom Nienow » Sun, Mar 21 2010, 12:28AM

I just started designing some cabinets in V6B3, when adding doors the hinges are not being applied to the cabinet buy list or cabinet cost sheet. Door bumpers and shelf clips are, what's up with that?

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Kerry Fullington
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Re: Problem with holes showing up

Postby Kerry Fullington » Sun, Mar 21 2010, 9:33AM

Tom,

Open your cabinet in the cabinet editor
go to the Door Drawer Front Editor
Open the Item Window and make sure you have default hinges and mounting plates selected
Also set your hole patterns here if needed
The default hinge and plate will be added to your cabinet and Cabinet Buy list when you add a door
If you have a door on the cabinet and no hinges were associated you can remove the door and replace it to get the hinges etc applied or you can click on a door to highlight it then use the drop down menu next to your hinge and plate and choose Apply to Selected Parts. This should add the parts.


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