Rafix with Dados?

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Gary Campbell
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Rafix with Dados?

Postby Gary Campbell » Fri, Apr 30 2010, 9:10PM

I think I know the answer to this, but had to ask. I would like to apply the parametric abilities of the included rafix, with a pocket screw hole pattern for example, along with small dados for registry, to meet a potential customers specs. Anyone have a method or workaround for this, or something like it?

Thanks in advance
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Re: Rafix with Dados?

Postby Nat Wheatley » Sat, May 01 2010, 9:13AM

Gary,

Applied to all, or just select parts of the cabinet?

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Re: Rafix with Dados?

Postby Sean Jakob » Sat, May 01 2010, 12:08PM

create seed cabinets with dados.
then manually add screw holes via part editor
constrain them

the only problem is that the qty won"t change with cabinet size changes like it would with KD/RTA settings

My suggestion is that the programmers allow us to use both KD/RTA joints AND dados simultaneously within any cabinet / drawer box joint.

Wow wouldn't that be good

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Re: Rafix with Dados?

Postby Gary Campbell » Sat, May 01 2010, 5:13PM

Nat...
Of course I can think of cases for both. Selected in the case of a finished end cabinet and all in the case of a flatpack.

Using modified hole patterns I would like to use either Rafix or pocket screws depending on the client

Sean...
Yes, it would be more than good. It seems we were given almost all the pieces to make a perfect puzzle. The parametric Rafix functions are great, allowing a custom pattern is better. We just need to turn off the switch that stops them on dado'ed parts! :mrgreen:

I really hope I dont have to add these manually and constrain, as it would take longer to design than cut. The additional time would mean we lose the job.
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Re: Rafix with Dados?

Postby Joe Dusel » Sun, May 02 2010, 10:57PM

Gary,

I use the Rafix parts all the time, so I am a bit confused as to why you would want to use them with dados. Using the Rafix parts aligns all of the connecting parts already. I use the Rafix with the 8mm brass inserts and machine type screws and they work great.

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Re: Rafix with Dados?

Postby Jason Susnjara » Mon, May 03 2010, 8:46AM

Hi Guys,

We have tested a blind dado joint along with the Rafix fittings and did not work very well. The purpose for this type of construction is to be able to put a cabinet together with BD and glue and not use any clamping. Using this construction might work on a couple of parts but was difficult to use for the entire cabinet. The possibility of creating a joint that uses blind dado and pilot holes automatically might come in the future.
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Re: Rafix with Dados?

Postby Josh Rayburn » Mon, May 03 2010, 9:25AM

That would be a welcome addition!
jnr
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Re: Rafix with Dados?

Postby Gary Campbell » Mon, May 03 2010, 8:18PM

Joe....

Personally, I don't. I do however, have a request from a client, as my post says above, for small registry dados and pocket screws. Pocket screws, not Rafix. I wanted to change the hole pattern to an oval from the standard rafix pattern. These dados would be 1/4 or 3/16 wide by the same depth and be used to meet a design criteria along with registration for assembly.

Jason...
I agree... the rafix and blind dado dont really work together well in my mind either. Using some hole pattern trickery I wanted to apply the parametric Rafix placement to allow pocket screw machining.

I also look forward to the assembly screw addition. As a side note, if we were able to use the rafix with dados function as above for pocket screws, we could also use it with a single bore pattern for assembly screws.

I have found that Rafix fasteners are not very well received by the non CNC cabinetmakers that I have spoken with. Like Joe, I have no problem with them, but only use them occasionally. But I am not buying, I am attempting to sell cutting services to small shops. Most of these guys assume that if they can cut it using conventional tools, our "big fancy tool" should be able to do it too. If we cant cut their cabinets, we dont get the job.

I can understand the process of testing combinations like rafix and blind dados, Surely I can understand why a programming decision was made not to allow them to coexist. However, I feel that using different hole patterns, assembly or pilot holes, pocket screws and dowel contruction could be great features to add to the software. It may also broaden the appeal to your user base. With Thermwood's track record, I would wish that it be considered.

I dont have any problem modifying my methods to match the softwares features. I am finding as we switch more and more of our business to machining, that it is much easier to sell work if we can meet the clients wishes on the outset and then move them into more machinable cabinet joinery styles, than to try to change their styles prior to seeing their first job cut. Thanks for your response.
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Re: Rafix with Dados?

Postby Sean Jakob » Fri, May 07 2010, 4:14PM

Jason
you mentioned:
The possibility of creating a joint that uses blind dado and pilot holes automatically might come in the future.


This is all I believe is required. It would seem unlikely anyone would want a blind dado along with a CAM/RTA type fitting. Without think too hard to assemble a basic cabinet and it seems it would be almost impossible to construct a complex cabinet using this configuration.

So you have my vote to can the Blind Dado.

You most certainly have my vote to incorporate a combination Blind (or FULL) Dado and Pilot hole for a screwed together blind (or full) dado joint in the cabinet.

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Re: Rafix with Dados?

Postby Gary Campbell » Fri, May 07 2010, 7:52PM

Sean...
I agree completely. The Rafix requires a slide action to set the fastener that is at a right angle to that required to place a tenon in the dado. The two, should not be able to coexist. My point was, that if, at a programming level, they were allowed to coexist, then we could then use a single bore for parametric pilot screws, or an oval for pocket screws. Maybe the feature could be renamed to a "fastener" or similar. Rafix, pilot holes, pocket screws or dowel hole patterns could be selected. I am sure that other ingenious users will come up with more.

It is my guess that most all to do this is in the software already, but since the programmers were thinking only of Rafix, they are prohibited from coexisting on the same joint. And rightly so.
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Re: Rafix with Dados?

Postby Forrest Chapman » Fri, May 07 2010, 10:23PM

There was a company in Canada that used the dado with rta method starting 4 or 5 years ago. Don't know if they still do. They had a complete library set up in this manner for ecabs. The joint is only possible if you use the cam without shoulder so the stud can slip in from the end or edge.

Forrest


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