RTA Hardware Association Issues

[Tim Massa]

Hi All,

As were trying to wrap our head around 6.4 there seems to be a problem with getting our ptn. files associated with our RTA hardware.
In the past we were drilling screw pilot holes for our case construction by associating a 1/8 hole .765" deep to a piece of never used hardware that had this hole pattern associated with it. This proved really usefull for getting holes drilled out on the machine.
When we tried to create the same situation in 6.4 were running into problems. We created the actual hardware piece in the Settings/Preferences window under the Define Hardware panel. We created the KDA and gave it the actual Hafele zipper screw part no., price per. piece, etc.
As I designed a cabinet using a standard frameless base I tried using the newly created kda (hafele zipper screw) by selecting it thru the right hand fly out menu under KD/RTA option. So far so goos.
Next I associated the 1/8 pilot hole ptn. that was in our custom patterns library.
Finally I selected the deck and selected KD/RTA inser the left and right hand sides' construction settings.
The program keeps putting in a default Minifix rta pattern instead.
The Zipper screw is selected and listed in the right hand pull out menu. The 1/8" pilot hole is listed as being associated with the zipper. The hole patten was checked in the hole pattern editor and is correct. Software keeps throwing in this minifix pattern from some place else.
Also, have we lost the ability to add different KD/RTA fasteners to different sides of a cabinet member? We were given the option to select different KDA hardware to different edges via the construction settings/construction parameters and selecting what edge got what KDA or make all the edges get the same KDA. Is this no longer possible?
Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Tim

[JohnLashuay]

Also, have we lost the ability to add different KD/RTA fasteners to different sides of a cabinet member? We were given the option to select different KDA hardware to different edges via the construction settings/construction parameters and selecting what edge got what KDA or make all the edges get the same KDA. Is this no longer possible?

Tim, bring your cabinet into the Cab Editor and in the pull out menu go to the KD/RTA section. At the top, just above the KD Hardware pic there are 3 icons. The far left is "Change Applied Hardware per part." Click on this icon and a dialog box will open where you can change individual hardware within the part.

Hope this helps!
-John

[Tim Massa]

Ohhhh......,

Yeah, that did it. Glad to see were still able to designate edges with various KD/RTA hardware.
I'm still baffled, though. What is the purpose of the KD/RTA image and hole pattern on the first page of the fly out menu? It looks like the only way to get the RTA's and their associated hole pattern installed into the cabinet is to go into the Applied Parts menu and select the RTA and then select the pattern for each side of the cabinet part that you want. Does this mean that associating hole patterns to hardware is no more? You must select both hardware and hole pattern each time?
I also tried to do this in the Applied Parts menu under the Selected Parts tab with a selected deck. Picked the RTA and the hole pattern. The program did not install the hole pattern to the cabinet deck. I can only get it to apply the RTA hole pattern under the Cabinet Parts tab.
Thanks for getting me pointed in the right direction, John.
Tim

[Tim Massa]

Whoops,

I figured it out. You need to have the KD/RTA selected in the left mouse click "construction settings". Then go to the right hand fly out menu. Select KD/RTA. Hit the teeny icon. Select the RTA. Select the hole pattern for the RTA, much like the edgebanding editor. Hit apply.
Is that the gist? Seems like alot of extra steps were added here. Lots of mouse clicking and scrolling but we'll see. Hopefully it will be more intuitive as I use it more.

[Tim Massa]

Also,
What the heck is the point of the first page of the KD/RTA menu? Why does it allow you to select hardware and hole patterns here as though it might actually apply your choices to the cabinet parts via left mouse click/construction settings? This first page seems to do nothing. What am I missing here?

[JohnLashuay]

What is the purpose of the KD/RTA image and hole pattern on the first page of the fly out menu?

I believe the need for the KD/RTA hardware image is for the "buy list." The first page is necessary for changing and applying the hole pattern. On the first page you can easily change the KD fittings for the whole cabinet or just individual parts. Going to the second page is necessary if you are not using the same hole pattern for each fitting on a part. The vast majority of the time I just use the first page.

Does this mean that associating hole patterns to hardware is no more? You must select both hardware and hole pattern each time?

Yes to the first, but I believe no to the second question. I don't believe that you need to select the hardware in order to use the pattern. As I stated above, I believe you need to choose the hardware for the purpose of having it in your "buy list."

[Scott G Vaal]

Tim,

First, in V6 the hardware and hole pattern association is now completely separate (this was wanted by the majority of users, and we feel it makes the most sense, so we separated them).

Now, a high percentage of users utilize the same KD/RTA fitting for an entire cabinet so they do not need to see the detailed "Change Applied Hardware per Part" dialog. So, the KD/RTA's tab (first page as you called it) lets you set the pattern and or hardware for the entire cabinet by selecting one or both and then clicking on the "Apply to..." icon (the right most icon that looks like 2 sheets of paper with arrows going around them) and selecting "Apply to Cabinet" option. By doing this you have changed every edge of every part of the cabinet to use both the hardware and pattern. You also have the option to apply it to only parts that you have selected (by choosing "Apply to..." icon and selecting "Apply to Selected Parts" option ). If you just change the pattern and hardware on the KD/RTA's tab and do not select Apply to cabinet, it will only get applied to new parts added to the cab(such as shelves and partitions). You also have the drop down icon "Options" that lets you change the hardware or pattern individually to selected parts. Now, if you need to get specific edges of specific parts to use individual hardware or patterns, that is what the "Change Applied Hardware per Part" dialog is for.

[Tim Massa]

Scott,

I have been banging away at this RTA construction setting for a coupla days now and question why any one wants to split the hole association from the hardware.
The idea of being able to make our own hardware with hole association was always needed. In previous versions we had to take a never used piece of hardware and associate our own custom hole pattern to it to be able to quickly locate it in a cabinet. This was what we did for getting a 1/8" pilot hole for screws used in case assembly. We took a never used piece of hardware and associated it to a hole pattern created in hole pattern editor. The hardware was added to the "My Favorites" list. The hardware piece was logged into a notebook so that we could remember what the heck it was used for since we didn't have the ability to create our own hardware pieces and label them. We use this for suspension fittings and other hardware needs. This would screw up the buy list but we knew what parts were not to be ordered by the image (visual clue).
In my limited experience so far, I now find it necessary to have to go into the appropriate editor to make the change to the construction settings for an RTA. Befor this I had to go into another menu an select RTA. Then select hardware (so it makes it to the buy list?) and then select the hole pattern that is the correct one. If the part doesn't get the RTA put on it, after coming out of the appropriate editor and into the main editor, I have to select the part, go over to the fly out menu, select the two pieces of paper and select the selected parts option.
If that doesn't work I go for the left hand icon and have to input the edge connection thru that. This feels like it's way more complicated and the task has been split up even further, inviting errors. We'll see
Question: How would having the image of the hardware be different from the hole pattern be helpful? I'm missing something here that may be useful. Wouldn't you want the hole pattern to be the one necessary for the part that you are ordering? Now we have the opportunity to have the order list giving us the correct information, with the ability to create our own parts, but the hole pattern may be incorrect. We are given a quick visual clue of what the hardware is but have to decipher a part number hole pattern or resave the hole pattern and call it something that will make more sense. It looks like the task now, requires more work and more opportunity for error. I'm glad that we have the much needed ability to create hardware. Extremely helpfull. BIG THANKS!!! Not understanding the loss of association and why that was helpfull.