Offsetting hinges

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Offsetting hinges

Postby jason galbraith » Mon, Jul 19 2010, 6:18PM

When i put a cabinet together and put say 5 evenly spaced adjustable shelves in it and i want the door to have 4 hinges, the hinges will always hit on a couple of the areas where adjustable shelf holes are. Is there any way to off set the hinges away from those holes?
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Re: Offsetting hinges

Postby JohnLashuay » Mon, Jul 19 2010, 9:54PM

jason galbraith wrote: Is there any way to off set the hinges away from those holes?


Adjust your adjustable holes: change the front line bore to 2"-3". This will set them back from the hinge holes.

Go into Shelf/Partition Editor > Highlight your adjustable shelves > construction settings > select adj. shelf > under apply holes change the front inset

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Re: Offsetting hinges

Postby jason galbraith » Mon, Jul 19 2010, 10:32PM

Yeah thanks John, but I don't want to have to set my shelves back, I want to move the offending hinge. Is it possible?
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Re: Offsetting hinges

Postby Rick Palechuk » Mon, Jul 19 2010, 11:19PM

Jason, you could try the Max Distance Between Hinges setting in the Door Editor.

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Re: Offsetting hinges

Postby Josh Rayburn » Tue, Jul 20 2010, 7:02AM

I think it would also be ideal (dreamworld) to have the adjustable holes and the hinge bore (if applied) displayed in the shelf editor and the door / drawer front editor such that one could see a potential overlap whilst still in the appropriate editor that one would need to re-enter to fix the problem. An indication of where the holes and hinges are inside of their respective editors would be immensely helpful. Especially when you've got the shelf(s) in then you add a door(s) - sometimes that third hinge pops in there...it would be nice to see the issues right away.
I also agree that a drag feature or "distance from top / bottom" feature would also be helpful to a particular hinge bore - most of the time I can't bore slab doors on the CNC because the cup bore will interfere with my edgebander trimming shoe which causes damaged parts. So, I usually have to bore the doors on a boring machine after they're edgebanded - this is another reason the 'distance from edge of door' would be nice to have, such that one could mark and bore the door accurately as a secondary process.
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Re: Offsetting hinges

Postby Kerry Fullington » Tue, Jul 20 2010, 7:27AM

Josh,

I may be misunderstanding what you want to do but couldn't you just change the hole pattern for your hinges to place a small position mark on the door for reference at the hinge boring machine instead of the hole pattern for the cup and screws? This would still bore the holes in the cabinet for mounts but only mark centers for the hinge cup.

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Re: Offsetting hinges

Postby JohnLashuay » Tue, Jul 20 2010, 8:20AM

Josh, I have the same problem with edge banding a slab door, so just as Kerry said, I made a hole pattern that drills the panel holes for the hinges, but also drills a center spot hole for the hinge in the door. It makes it easy to line up and then drill the hinges in the door.

With regards to the adj. holes interfering with the hinges we have found that it is easiest to just move the front adj holes back. This has worked great for us. What would be a reason not to do this?

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Re: Offsetting hinges

Postby Mark Hesketh » Tue, Jul 20 2010, 9:13AM

Jason, I have the same problem

I would love to see a way to offset the hinge locations as well. Quite often we will get a cabinet where we need to place 3 hinges on the door, and the client has spec'd 3 shelves. All of our shelves are set back from the front by 1". We are not about to set one shelf back 3 inches or more just so that the hinge can be set in the center. As a result, we end up manually adding holes to alot of our gables in the part editor for a third hinge at a location that will sit above or below the offending shelf. Same situation as Jason as well when it comes to 5 shelves and 3 or 4 hinges Having an automated method of offsetting certain hinges would speed up our programming time tremendously.

I understand that I can set it up with constraints, the problem with that is when the cabinet gains a drawer at the bottom, or 2 drawers, or an open shelf... since I have to constrain the added holes to the gable and not the door, changing the configuration of the cabinet renders the constraints useless from one cabinet to the next.

We program at least 10-15 kitchens every day and you might be amazed at how often this situation can come up. If this were automated, it would speed up the whole process alot.

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Re: Offsetting hinges

Postby Kerry Fullington » Tue, Jul 20 2010, 9:18AM

Wasn't the original idea in 32mm construction that the line of shelf holes be positioned so that you used the shelf holes for hinge plated also. If you were doing that I could see not moving the shelf holes back but if you are doing that then the shelf holes wouldn't be interfering with the hinge plate holes either.

I will be creating a library of cabients to be cut using CNC shortly so these subjects interest me a great deal right now. I want to get it right the first time.

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Re: Offsetting hinges

Postby jason galbraith » Tue, Jul 20 2010, 3:52PM

Thanks for the input guys, all of our machining for hinge cup holes is done on the CNC, and we don't have a hinge boring machine, and even if we did, we are trying to get away from the having the guys on the floor having to do anything manually apart from assembling cabinets. The way we look at it is, is that it's double handling, and it's just another area where things can get stuffed up. Kerry yeah we use system 32 where the hinge plate holes are the same set back as the adjustable shelf holes, but it is of no use if the adjustable shelf is hitting the hinge plate.
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Re: Offsetting hinges

Postby Josh Rayburn » Wed, Jul 21 2010, 7:10AM

Good morning guys,
Yes, I do use a pilot hole boring pattern as well. However, it's nice to be able to set that center bore or two additional bores to be exact - the center of an 1/8" pilot hole is sometimes difficult to line up with 'eyeballing' the center tick mark on the boring machine...(how do I say this politely)....depending on who is boring the doors...
The bottom line is I should get a different shoe for my edgebander and then the problem of boring AND double handling would go away, but it's just not worth the huge amount of money it would cost to have the trimming shoe made to suit the purpose.
The other issue is that with large cabinets and drawer boxes (pullouts) one has no control over where those center hinges are placed so they don't interfere with the drawers. For example, a closet type of tall cabinet with one tall door and a bunch of pullouts. One only has the option to add more or less hinges via the "max distance between hinges" setting, but we can't change where they actually go...I also agree with Mark - I have seen lots of specs for a 42 upper wall cabinet with three hinges and three shelves. I'm not going to set the shelves back 3" either.
My main request above all is to be able to see where they're going in the editor without having to return to the main editor and suffer the rebuild, etc. That way one can see the effects right away and adjust if needed.
Kerry - the problem with the whole 32mm system configuration is that you can only change the height of the box by 32mm increments if you want your hinges to line up, and there are times when you want shelves lined up with mullions on glass doors, so that further complicates the matter when placing shelves and hinges.
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Re: Offsetting hinges

Postby jason galbraith » Wed, Jul 21 2010, 3:57PM

Regarding the shoes for edge banding, i just machine 20 or 30 round MDF plugs that sit in the hinge holes and use them to stop the edger dropping into the hinge cups and ruining the door edge. They usually last a few months before they chop out, then i machine some more. Nylon plugs would be best, but I imagine they cost a bit.
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Re: Offsetting hinges

Postby Michael S Murray » Wed, Jul 21 2010, 5:10PM

Kerry-fyi
I still use the 32 mm heights for my res. and commercial cabs, this allows me to have doors and drawer fronts that are the same for both,(p-lam,5 pc wood, mdf, whatever)(grass zargen,grass nova pro, assorted under mounts) less confusing and fewer librarys.
What I dont do is use the 32 mm line boring for several reasons. I aborted that when I got the router. Suddenly all those extra holes became ugly and confusing to me.
It also allows me to only bore the holes I need and this eliminates having to figure out where the hinge plates and slides go, there is no choice. I set the front shelf holes back 2", this puts them behind the slide and hinge plate holes.
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Re: Offsetting hinges

Postby FredHirsch » Wed, Jul 21 2010, 6:18PM

On a slab door with the edgebander, we have some thin laminate pieces that we will just send through the bander with the door covering the hinge holes. The trimmer will ride up where the laminate is, but on the thintape, a razor blade knocks it off pretty quick.
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Re: Offsetting hinges

Postby Michael S Murray » Wed, Jul 21 2010, 7:07PM

Dang it Fred, I thought I was so smart..(not really)
We do the same thing on hinge holes and the occasional dado that gives us trouble, then we have a laminate trimmer that stays at the bander and we just buzz it off.....
Seems to be quicker than making plugs/fillers etc...
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