how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

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how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby Tom Burns » Wed, Mar 07 2012, 8:22PM

Hello all:

I am new to the forum (as well as using eCabinet Systems for my cabinet making class at college).

I am really confused about using the Rectangle and Circle feature for making holes on parts in the Part Editor.

Someone PLEASE tell me there is a way to re-size/move and align circles and rectangles to a part once they are created. It's such a common feature to do in every graphics/3D program I have ever used (and I am very familiar with 3D programs as well as other professional drawing packages like Adobe Illustrator) but I have found no way to do this in eCabinets.

Surely, one can't be expected to draw the exact position and size of shapes for holes with no other option but to create them again if they aren't done correctly.

There must be a way to do this.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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Re: how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby Kerry Fullington » Wed, Mar 07 2012, 9:00PM

Tom,

You create the holes etc. the size you want them and cut them out in the part editor and then return to the cabinet editor keeping the changes to your part. You then highlight that part and take it into the Constraint Manager. You apply vertical and horizontal constraints to, say the center of a circle you have cut and then click the edit button and next click on one of the constraints you have placed. You can now enter a new dimension. Using this method you can change position of any cutout.

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Re: how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby Tom Burns » Wed, Mar 07 2012, 9:33PM

Hello Kerry:

Thank you for your quick reply to my question.

If that is the only way to do it, then this program needs a very serious re-design.

I am astonished that users are expected to go through such convoluted steps to do something that is so simple and commonly-done in other programs I have used professionally (both 2D and 3D).

Kerry, please understand that any hostility you may be picking up in my message is not directed at you but at the makers of eCabinets.

The more I am using this program, the more baffled I am at the needlessly confusing way users are supposed to do such common things that other programs have been doing right for years. But in order to complete my cabinetmaking course at college, I have to use eCabinets because the school somehow thought this was the way to go.

Is there a "wishlist" section of this forum where users can request new features/fixes for eCabinets? If so, I will be sure to direct my requests and suggestions (as well as those of my other classmates who are just as confused as I am) to that section.

Thanks again.

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Re: how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby Wayne Adelkopf » Wed, Mar 07 2012, 9:53PM

Wow Tom!
Wait till you start using the Line Drawing Editor :cry:

You think it's frustrating as a student, try to use it as a professional!

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Re: how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby Tom Burns » Wed, Mar 07 2012, 10:13PM

Thanks for your reply, Wayne.

I can pretty much guarantee that unless Thermwood starts investing heavily on researching how pretty much every other industry standard 3D modelling and graphical software programs do things and implementing what they do right into eCabinets, I will most definitely NOT be using eCabinets professionally.

I have had many years of experience in the graphic design industry as well as many years experience as a 3D modeler in the video games industry so I am no stranger to software programs that have a very steep learning curve.

Yes, I know eCabinets is not a graphics program nor a 3D modeling program but there are many similarities in the way objects and shapes are created in eCabinets. But again, the baffling lack of intuitive processes to do many simple tasks leads me to have no plans to use this program professionally unless future versions fix these oversights.

From the short time I have been using eCabinets, I can see that is has a lot of potential. But I can also say that there are many things that have clearly been poorly-researched in terms of ease of use for the end user and the problem I have asked about in my original post is a great example of what I mean.

Thermwood: do yourselves a favor and have non-programmers on your staff while you are developing eCabinets because programmers are not the people who will be using your software.

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Re: how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby jason galbraith » Wed, Mar 07 2012, 11:08PM

Gold :joker:
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Re: how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby Kerry Fullington » Thu, Mar 08 2012, 8:57AM

Tom,

First of all, eCabinet Systems software is not graphic design and modeling software. It is not CAD software. It is cabinet design and manufacturing software. It's sole purpose is to design cabinets and relay information to a Thermwood router to be cut. It does this very well.

If you want to use eCabinets then forget that you ever used any other software and learn eCabinets. I can guarantee that it will design and execute just about any cabinet that you can dream up.

Tell me what Cabinet Design and Manufacturing software packages you have used?

Now to address your first question, I would enter coordinates and place holes and cutouts correctly when I draw them in the part editor but if you don't do that then move them in the constraint manager. You just have to enter new dimensions and you are done. What could be easier?

cm_01.jpg


cm_02.jpg


cm_03.jpg



I would strongly suggest that you subscribe to the training videos and by all means purchase the Almost Complete Guide to eCabinet Systems Software.

Learn eCabinet Systems Software instead of wishing it were some other software.

You stated that unless eCabinets changes you will not be using it. That is fine but be prepared to pay a minimum of $20,000 for a seat of any software that can compare to eCabinets.


Pardon me for being frank but you don't know enough about eCabinets to be criticizing it.

Call me at 806-333-2730 if you would like to discuss this.

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Re: how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby Kerry Fullington » Thu, Mar 08 2012, 9:11AM

Tom,

HERE is a link to some of my projects through the years.

HERE is a link to my current project.

Bear in mind that this design in eCabinets includes some very complex joinery as well as information for the router to drill every screw pilot hole, shelf pin hole, clip all the corners for my radius moldings,and drill all the holes for my hardware as well as information for the router to model the raised panels on the mantel shelf, skirt and legs. This project will take me about four hours to cut on a CS-43 and then these cabinets will just snap together. It will also provide me a cut list for all my hardwoods, and a complete bill of materials to place my orders

Graphic design software no matter how easy to use can't do this.

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Re: how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby Tom Burns » Thu, Mar 08 2012, 8:44PM

Hello Kerry:

Thanks very much for the effort you went through to give a detailed answer as well as extending the offer to discuss this over the phone. I do appreciate it very much.

I looked at your work and it was very beautiful!

But you asked what could be easier than the directions you gave and while I again appreciate your help, I submit that this would be easier:



1. Once a circle or rectangle is drawn, highlighting it and being able to scale and move the it to where you want it to be placed without having to go into a whole other area of the software to make these simple changes would be much, much easier (and one would think a very obvious option to include).

2. Also, just common things that pretty much any software has like a straightforward way of saving files and once those files are saved, double-clicking the file icon in Windows Explorer should open it up in eCabinets. The fact that neither of these things occur with eCabinets is frankly, just bizarre.



As I said before your reply, I was aware that eCabinets is not a graphics program nor a 3D modeling program but there are common ways of doing things with almost all software that are just absent with eCabinets. It is for these reasons that eCabinets doesn't inspire me with the desire to buy it when I graduate unless common sense/intuitive oversights like these are fixed. It also makes me confident that there will be even more needlessly confusing quirks the more I use the program. BUT: I am also aware that there will be many great things too - it's just the stunningly bizarre quirks mixed in with what is good is not inspiring me with a burning desire to go out and use this program.

You are right that I don't know much about eCabinets but I do know what little I have seen has had some needlessly convoluted processes needed for some very simple things and could be made much easier by seeing how other software programs do things.

And yes, I will certainly bring up issues like I have not because I like to whine and complain, but because a program like eCabinets could be made SO much more easier by being way more straight-forward than it is.

Again like I have said earlier, I see this program having great possibilities. But the thing that keeps many (not all, but many) from learning many software programs are companies overlooking non-intuitive processes that the software requires of the new user.

You may be offended that someone is criticizing a software that you love using but I hope that Thermwood would see a potential customer's frustration and feedback as an opportunity to make their product more user-friendly.


Again, thank you for your time and help, Kerry.

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Re: how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby jason galbraith » Thu, Mar 08 2012, 9:04PM

Tom Burns wrote:It is for these reasons that eCabinets doesn't inspire me with the desire to buy it when I graduate unless common sense/intuitive oversights like these are fixed.


You would obviously be surprised to find out that eCabinets is FREE. it does not cost you at all. (Unless you buy a Thermwood machine, even then the software is free, but the machine is not). This helps Thermwood owners out by people being able to use the software and then sending the design off to a local Thermwood owner who can cut it for you.

Sort of brings everything back into perspective.

I've worked for two cabinet industry software companies and yeah eCabinets does seem overly convoluted to use. But it can do a lot of things that $50k packages can't.

Doesn't mean that things can't be improved, but they do listen to end users and the patient sometimes get rewarded:)
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Re: how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby Tom Burns » Thu, Mar 08 2012, 9:22PM

Yes, being a free package is quite a bargain/wake-up call/putting-things-in-perspective-type-of-thing.

It's also never a good idea to make a post just after spending over an hour just trying to find out how to move a circle.

The feedback I was trying to give certainly was meant as a way to point out simple things to implement as a way of making the program easier to use.

I have often said that those developing software packages rarely realize what it is like to come at a program from and end-user's perspective and it seems that this is the case with eCabinets.

But yeah... free is pretty damned awesome and some of the work I have seen (Kerry's in particular), makes me want to get past these quirks because it looks like a program with a lot of potential.

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Re: how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby Scott Marshburn » Fri, Mar 09 2012, 6:03AM

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't part editor have offset , mirror and move/copy tools that can be used to do what Tom is describing? Although Kerry's method is the method of choice for me.
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Re: how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby Kerry Fullington » Fri, Mar 09 2012, 7:09AM

Tom,

My point is that you are in a different world here. You are used to Maya, Corel Draw and 3D studio. While these programs can get you a fantastic concept and design drawing for your customer, they are worthless for your work in the cabinet shop.

You have no cabinet design software experience. You need to look at Cabinet Vision, KCDW, CabnetWare, Microvellum, Cabinet Pro, Cabinet Solutions, Cabinet Planner Designer Plus, Easy Cab Auto Cabinets Auto Kitchen and try to do something complex in any of these and you will be glad you started with eCabinets. You are in a whole different world of software. It does different things and therefore works differently. Try some of the others and you will be praising the eCabinets programmers instead of criticizing them. They have done some extraordinary work.

Over the last ten years the folks at eCabinets have listened to the input of hundreds if not thousands of experienced cabinet makers from every size shop literally around the world. They have implemented a multitude of features suggested by these professionals. They will listen to your ideas also if presented in the proper manner. You insult a great many people when you suggest that eCabinets needs someone besides programmers working on this project because there are a host of us who provide input into its development every day.

Become proficient with any of the software I have listed above and you can then start giving the harsh criticism you have levied in your posts.

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Re: how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby Kerry Fullington » Fri, Mar 09 2012, 7:20AM

Scott,

Yes those tools are available in eCabinets. The eCabinets programmers have kept the tools very simple while still providing the the features needed to build cabinets. These tools meet the needs of a cabinet shop but of course are not adequate for a graphic design artist. To provide the tools Tom is wanting would make the learning curve much steeper and would most likely bloat the program as well.

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Re: how To Scale/Move Rectangles/Circles in Part Editor?

Postby Tom Burns » Fri, Mar 09 2012, 7:35AM

Kerry Fullington wrote:Scott,

Yes those tools are available in eCabinets. The eCabinets programmers have kept the tools very simple while still providing the the features needed to build cabinets. These tools meet the needs of a cabinet shop but of course are not adequate for a graphic design artist. To provide the tools Tom is wanting would make the learning curve much steeper and would most likely bloat the program as well.


The particular example of using the pick box to highlight the rectangle or circle to cut a hole and being able to move and scale it by dragging on it is much easier and quicker than the process you were kind enough to provide.

I think it is a wise idea for eCabinets (and pretty much every software developer) to see what other programs use to make their processes easier and more intuitive regardless of what their function is.

Again, I know this isn't a graphic design package but seeing what other programs use to change/build shapes can only make this application more straightforward and faster to use.


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