Several Different Construction Questions

[Scott Moffett]

I am designing a kitchen for a client. I am new to eCabinet but went through the tutorials and managed to get most of it designed. I have shown the client the renderings and we made some changes. I do not know how to draw some of these so I wanted to see if someone might know how these can be done or if they can be done. It is a very stark and modern design with frameless cabinets and slab drawers and doors. The layout from left to right is a filler/scribe, a full height double oven cabinet, lower and upper cabinets in the middle, then a refrigerator cabinet, and then a narrow cabinet on the end with a full height 6" wide pullout pantry.

1) Originally they were slab with no toe kick. Now he wants to try it with a toe kick. How do I get the toe kick to overlap the sides instead of being between them. It is a different color and all I can do is get it to show between the cabinet sides so you see the different color of the side edgebanding. Not a huge deal but I would like the final rendering to look right. I know how to do a separate toe kick which would work between the oven and refrigerator cabinets but it doesn't work on the pullout cabinet to the right of the refrigerator because you see the end of the toe kick.

2) I understand how to make an assembly with two cabinets but I cannot get this to work. What I have is a refrigerator cabinet with a full depth full overlay double doors on top so they are 3/4" proud of the cabinet box. I want to put a 6" wide space next to it on the right with another end panel to house one of those full height narrow pullout pantries that Rev-A-Shelf sells. I have made the assembly of the two units but I can't figure out how to do the following details:

a) I want to cover the edge of the plywood on the left of the refrigerator with an 1-1/2" wide 3/4" thick (so it will be flush with the surface of the doors) that runs from just below the doors to the floor and flush to the outside and overhanging to the inside where the refrigerator goes similar to a face frame. I tried a face frame construction but it won't do a partial stile that I can see and I also want it flush with the doors and not behind them. I also tried a stretcher but you can't get it to the ground and you need to add a bottom to the refrigerator opening to even add it and then the software takes it away when you delete the bottom. So I cannot figure how to cover the edge of the plywood with this piece.

b) I want the pullout door of the narrow cabinet on the right to include this 1-1/2" "stile" for lack of a better word on the front of the refrigerator cabinet, and be notched around the door above the refrigerator and obviously straight down the right side which is the end of the cabinet run. How can I make this door to overlap the refrigerator box and be notched around the door above the refrigerator? The software makes you take the one-sided cabinet to the right by itself when adding a door rather than letting you add a door to the assembly.

3) He wants to frame the entire thing with a simple black trim. This will be 3/4" thick and will run up the left side where the wall is on top of the filler. Across the top like a crown but just straight across above the upper doors and then down the right side on top of the pullout door I was asking about in number 2 to the right of the refrigerator. I plan on scalloping in a cutout to use as the pull on the pantry door. I don't see how to add trim that runs vertically and on the surface of the cabinets. It will also have to run in, across, and back out on some not as deep upper cabinets in the center of the wall. This trim will probably be 3" wide and 3/4" thick.

Thank you ,

Scott

[Scott Moffett]

I was able to jury rig one of the problems but not all.

I was able to mostly achieve the look of the construction of the refrigerator cabinet and the adjoining pantry but the actual construction details are nothing like what will actually be built. I would like to get it to that point to help in the construction.

What I did was make a second set of doors in the refrigerator opening with 0" reveal on the outside and 36-1/4" gap between doors to end up with 1-1/2" "stiles" that run from the upper doors to the ground and are flush with the outside. But as I mentioned the construction details are wrong but it will look at least right in the rendering.

For the pantry I just eliminated the left side and narrowed it 3/4". Then I placed a zero reveal door on it. So the door is still separate from the partial height "stile" next to it but when the two pieces are placed together in the room it looks almost right.

I still have no idea how to do the frame trim around all the cabinets.

Scott

[Scott Marshburn]

Scott If you could Post the Job esj file we could get a better Idea of what you are wanting to do. It is possible someone has designed something similar to your design and could help.

[Mark McCallum]

My kick settings

Hi Scott
Sounds like you are getting the hang of eCabs very quickly.
For the black trim, If I understand you correctly, If it is in a straight line you could create a black material cabinet 3" deep without a back, a top and no base x the entire width say 8' and height and use the align feature in the cabinet editor. Or you could use display panels or boards and the rotate tool.
With the toe kick I use the full dado settings.
Not sure how you want the fridge section to work and look but you can take pieces into the part editor and then the constraints manager.
Hope this helps or makes sense.

[Kerry Fullington]

Scott,

For your toe kicks, Take your cabinets to the Cabinet Editor, click the toe Kick Tab and place a negative 3/4" left and right inset on the kicks. This will give you the look you are after.

In the face frame editor you can select any of the stiles and rails and delete them which will leave you with only the parts you need and you can then use the insets to adjust those parts.

Inset your doors 3/4" to make them flush with your face frame.

You will need to take your part to the part editor to notch it.

You can manually place a Display Door anywhere it is not possible to create a door in the usual manner.

Use Display cubes to make your black trim

[Dennis Englert]

For the toe kick, you can also take one of the cabinets in the room on the end of the run into the Cabinet Editor. Add and place or apply the Display Panel to the front of the toe that is as long as the entire run. Associate this panel to the cabinet and then return to the room. That would display correctly, as well as show up in your cut and cost lists.

Dennis

[Scott Moffett]

Great ideas. Thank you. I have a meeting right now so I am running out. I will be back around 10 and I will try to implement these ideas and post an ESJ.

Scott

[Mark McCallum]

Hi Kerry
On my monitor, with negative insets for the kicks, the display is not as defined as when I use the blind dado setting. even when using enhanced view.
What would happen in the situation when the code was sent to the machine. would it preform a double operation on the carcase end in the kick area or would it cancel itself out?
Just curious
Thanks
Mark

[Scott Moffett]

I was able to use display cube to make pieces of trim but when I put them in my room view I cannot figure out how to move them where they need to go. They pop appear in the middle and won't move. Intuitively it seems like you should be able to click on them and hold down the mouse button and drag them but I cannot get it to move with the menu or mouse or anything.

The other thing is where the wall cabinets are not as deep as the oven and refrigerator cabinets. Do I have to figure out every dimension and then make each individual piece or is there some way like with SketchUp where I can make the length based on the existing drawing without measuring and just snap it into place?

I tried the toe kick and the smaller cabinets the sides still show or appear cross hatched with the negative offset even with the enhanced display and rendering at maximum.

Scott

[Rick Palechuk]

Hi Scott, welcome aboard. The toe kick, do you need to create a proper working cut list, or just to sell the job? When you create components, you need to use correct sizing. No push, pull, or extruding. Sometimes building assemblies in the Cabinet Editor, saving, then taking them to Room Layout turns out to be easier than adding a bunch of parts to a room.

[Scott Moffett]

Rick,

Both really as far as construction and concept for the customer. Although I am building it myself in a conventional shop so I don't need any CNC drawings. How would you handle the toe kicks? I usually put them full width across the front of the cabinet notch and not between the sides anyway.

I did try the display cube in the cabinet editor but I couldn't get it moved to where I needed it there either. And with a whole row of cabinets that need the trim are you saying I should build the whole wall as an assembly and then move it into the room?

Scott

[Rick Palechuk]

Scott, take a look at this example job, in the elevation view, if you hover over the Toe Kick you will notice it is a cabinet with all the parts removed except the Toe Kick. The cabinet is the same depth as the other cabs, the toe kick inset has been adjusted 1/4" for the thickness of the material, that way when inserted in the room it will place properly in front of the other cabs. Hilite it in plan view to resize as required, move it in elevation view using the Position on Wall dialog, or with the Move Increment. Try to utilize cabinet parts as much as you can for fillers, panels, etc as they are re sizable, therefore giving you the most flexibility.

[Dennis Englert]

Rick, Great solution for the toe kick!

Dennis

[Scott Moffett]

Here is what I have with the first piece of display cube molding added. But I can't figure out anyway to get it to move. This is the first one for the far left. Then it will run across the top going in and across the upper cabinets then back out and across the the refrigerator and down the pullout pantry on the right. It is not in the drawing yet but in the stub wall parallel to the right side of the pantry you can see behind it will be a microwave inset into the wall and then a wide pullout pantry below it.

Scott

[Dennis Englert]

Give Rick's method a try. The method of putting a display panel in Custom Layout is much more difficult and time consuming.

There are videos on placing Display Objects that will help you. You have to associate the panel to a wall, then you can move it in the elevation view.

Dennis