Way to large mortices

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Tim Massa
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Way to large mortices

Postby Tim Massa » Mon, Jun 29 2015, 11:51AM

Hi all,

Getting some odd cutting results from an Ecab file. I'm cutting some 'stud' walls for a stage project. There are 4 up/down, left and right stretchers that get a full dado on their left and right sides. The 'mortises' are getting cut apx. 1/4" too wide. I've checked the construction settings but all looks correct. I can't find anything wrong with the cabinet construction settings but thought a fresh eye may help. I've also included the result off the table of one of the studs showing the mortice is way to large in the up down dimension. It should be 3". Photo shows it being almost 1/4" over wide!
I'm at a stanstill on this cutting job untill I get this figured out. Luckily I've only cut one stud so far. ANy help would be appreciated.
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Scott G Vaal
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Re: Way to large mortices

Postby Scott G Vaal » Mon, Jun 29 2015, 12:44PM

Tim,

That is by design. Control Nesting will automatically overshoot full dados by the radius of the tool that is machining them so that the mating part will fit. If you don't, the part will not lay flat or fit in from the end because the radius corners would prevent it (in other words, you cannot put a square outside corner into a radius inside corner and have it fit). If you do not want this overshooting, you will have to remove the full dado and inset the stretchers the thickness of the material and then use part editor cuts like you've done on the center piece. I'm gonna guess that you have a 1/4" tool being used for this operation.
Regards,

Scott Vaal
-Thermwood/eCabinet Systems-
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Tim Massa
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Re: Way to large mortices

Postby Tim Massa » Mon, Jun 29 2015, 2:26PM

Scott,

Of course! I must have gotten lost looking at it too much (or not thinking about it enough?). Yep, 1/4" MC bi. Picking up the extra width on the dado mortise length to clear the inside radius for a blind tennon's shoulder cut makes sense. Same rule applies to the full dado. DOOH! Welp, looks like I'm going to log in time in the parts editor some more.
Thanks again for the fast assist. Much appreciated.

Tim

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Re: Way to large mortices

Postby Ralph Balanik » Mon, Jun 29 2015, 5:03PM

Hi Tim,
Maybe you already do this but I tried a negative .125 fit clearance on a blind dado and it viewed correctly when I wireframed the part. you will still have to deal with the round corner and square peg :) . Probably too late but maybe next time.

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Re: Way to large mortices

Postby Ralph Balanik » Mon, Jun 29 2015, 5:13PM

Hi Tim,
As usual engaged fingers before brain. :oops: My apologies.

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Scott G Vaal
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Re: Way to large mortices

Postby Scott G Vaal » Tue, Jun 30 2015, 8:21AM

Tim,

I have been doing CNC for a long time now and over those years I have found two fairly simple ways to get the inside corners cleared using just the outline tool (allowing a square part to fit all the way into the corner(s)). This method uses geometry in the Contour area and then cutting it through the part or creating the entire outline and using create part using closed contour. This is not necessarily just for eCabinets, it can be used in really any cad/cam application and can be used when creating DXFs for loading into Control Nesting as well. If you view the attached picture, you will see 2 options. Option 1 is probably the the simplest to create, but takes more material away. Option 2 is my favorite and take the least material away as possible and still use the outline tool. I add the extra .002" so that no matter if the tool is at nominal diameter, slightly over (which hardly ever happens), or any size smaller, it will always be able to get all the way in to clear the corner. The .7071 value used in option 2 is just taking the sin of 45 degrees to get the distance that the 2 directions have to move to get the radius meeting right at the 90 degree corner. The tool path when doing the outline will just dip the tool into the corner and continue on in a nice flowing manner with either option. Hope this helps and makes sense.

Clean Corner Options.jpg
Regards,

Scott Vaal
-Thermwood/eCabinet Systems-
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Tim Massa
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Re: Way to large mortices

Postby Tim Massa » Tue, Jun 30 2015, 8:53AM

Scott,

Yes it does. I have done exactly as you described in other applications in the past. Works well. I'll also get the shaper set up with a radius cutter, set the power feed up and dump the pieces thru. Sometimes it's quicker to do a secondary operation on another machine for speed. Either way I'm slowing myself down today with my brain fart in Ecabs.

Question,

As I go back into the job file, loaded into my Ecab's Link, to turn off the parts already run as well as the Left and Right sides that will need to be part edited for the revised notches, I cant help but feel frustrated at the Links jumbling of the cabinet orders from Ecabs. Ecab tags cabinets B1, B2, B3, etc... Yet when they are loaded into the link they list all out of order. B3, B27, B9, etc....
Real frustration to go in and turn parts on and off. Is there any way to have the cabs load into the Link ind display in the Ecabs tagged order?

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Scott G Vaal
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Re: Way to large mortices

Postby Scott G Vaal » Tue, Jun 30 2015, 10:01AM

Tim Massa wrote:Question,
As I go back into the job file, loaded into my Ecab's Link, to turn off the parts already run as well as the Left and Right sides that will need to be part edited for the revised notches, I cant help but feel frustrated at the Links jumbling of the cabinet orders from Ecabs. Ecab tags cabinets B1, B2, B3, etc... Yet when they are loaded into the link they list all out of order. B3, B27, B9, etc....
Real frustration to go in and turn parts on and off. Is there any way to have the cabs load into the Link ind display in the Ecabs tagged order?


Tim,

I did a quick test with 31 cabs loaded into a batch, then loaded that job into Shopbot link and the order seems to be ok. Can you get me a scenario that demonstrates this issue and then send or attach the export from the link. Also, what version of the link are you running?
Regards,

Scott Vaal
-Thermwood/eCabinet Systems-
Dell Precision / Xeon E3-1240 / 8GB RAM /NVIDIA Quadro K2000

Tim Massa
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Re: Way to large mortices

Postby Tim Massa » Thu, Jul 02 2015, 2:10PM

Hi Scott,

Thanks for looking into this. I have loaded earlier jobs and they did load in the proper sequence from the Ecab job file. For some rason this job I've attached is not loadin onto the web site and the result is a page refresh that wipes out the body of my message. File may be too large? I've attached a image to show what I'm getting in the Link. Both control computer and design computer have the same Link result. I'll try to load the job file later.
THanks for the help. It's appreciated.
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Scott G Vaal
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Re: Way to large mortices

Postby Scott G Vaal » Thu, Jul 02 2015, 2:30PM

Tim,

Please send me the job you are loading and an export from the link to cabinets@thermwood.com and I will investigate.
Regards,

Scott Vaal
-Thermwood/eCabinet Systems-
Dell Precision / Xeon E3-1240 / 8GB RAM /NVIDIA Quadro K2000

Tim Massa
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Re: Way to large mortices

Postby Tim Massa » Thu, Jul 09 2015, 8:48AM

Hi Scott,

Thanks again for looking at this. I have sent the Ecabs batch file and TWD file. Hopefully it is something simple that can get it resolved.

Tim

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Scott G Vaal
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Re: Way to large mortices

Postby Scott G Vaal » Fri, Jul 10 2015, 3:03PM

Tim,

I have finally narrowed it down. The shuffled cab number order in the Shopbot link happens when you change the order of cabinets in the batch. If you add them to a batch and leave the order alone, it will stay sequential in the link. I will add this to the list and see if they can resolve that for a future version of the link.
Regards,

Scott Vaal
-Thermwood/eCabinet Systems-
Dell Precision / Xeon E3-1240 / 8GB RAM /NVIDIA Quadro K2000

Tim Massa
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Re: Way to large mortices

Postby Tim Massa » Tue, Jul 14 2015, 8:26AM

Thanks Scott,

Didn't realize this could happen either the adding or subtracting of cabs in the batch. Thanks for looking into this. As always, it's appreciated.

Tim

Paul Mallinson
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Re: Way to large mortices

Postby Paul Mallinson » Fri, Jun 24 2016, 7:27PM

Tim Massa wrote:Hi all,

Getting some odd cutting results from an Ecab file. I'm cutting some 'stud' walls for a stage project. There are 4 up/down, left and right stretchers that get a full dado on their left and right sides. The 'mortises' are getting cut apx. 1/4" too wide. I've checked the construction settings but all looks correct. I can't find anything wrong with the cabinet construction settings but thought a fresh eye may help. I've also included the result off the table of one of the studs showing the mortice is way to large in the up down dimension. It should be 3". Photo shows it being almost 1/4" over wide!
I'm at a stanstill on this cutting job untill I get this figured out. Luckily I've only cut one stud so far. ANy help would be appreciated.


Hi all,

I too have suffered from the issue described by Tim of getting unexpected results and have also successfully used the approach outlined by Scott in this thread of defining geometry to define inside corners. The cause of Tim's issue and also the challenge with using the approach described by Scott is that it still requires the designer to make assumptions about how the machine will behave when making the cuts.

Is there an option to get either the model or the nest to display the form of the parts which *will* be generated rather than the default situation where the only the *designed/desired* parts are shown? It would seem that the software has all the information required to do this by combining the designers input with the True Shape Nesting Cutter Diameter and Thermwood's knowledge of the CNC machine behaviour.

Hopefully someone can help me find an option in the software which I'm missing.

Thanks .. Paul.


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