Flip Ops in SB Link

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Nat Wheatley
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Flip Ops in SB Link

Postby Nat Wheatley » Thu, Jul 05 2018, 1:52PM

I should know this already, but how do I pull up the flip ops for a single part in SB Link. The part is cut, with the operations done to the face of it, looking to set it back on the machine and have the drilling etc be done for the back side? I've had a work around for this up until now, be need to be able to do it the 'right' way. Thanks
http://www.plymouthcustomclosets.com

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Ralph Balanik
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Re: Flip Ops in SB Link

Postby Ralph Balanik » Fri, Jul 06 2018, 8:34AM

Nat,
In the link settings there is a button for flip ops first. I use flip ops all the time but I usually do it on a whole sheet so doing it piece by piece is unfamiliar to me. You have to flip your piece on the X axis and you have to place it against your fence which has to be really accurate other wise it won't work well for you. When you press the flip ops first button a screen comes up asking if you want to trim the sheet. I would think if the piece is cut you might not want any trim amounts so start with zeros in the trim field. I would try a piece of scrap first and check the location of the machining before working with the actual component. Trial and error is my mantra :?

Nat Wheatley
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Re: Flip Ops in SB Link

Postby Nat Wheatley » Fri, Jul 06 2018, 2:44PM

Thanks Ralph. I’ve looked through the Link again, and what I still can’t figure out is how to select the flip operations for a single part. I’m thinking there must be a way, as if ‘flip ops first weren’t selected you’d need to be able to do what I’m
looking to do.
http://www.plymouthcustomclosets.com

Dell Precision 490/ Intel Xeon 3.20 Ghz/3 GB RAM/ Nvidia Quadro FX 3450/ Windows XP, sp 3

Nat Wheatley
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Re: Flip Ops in SB Link

Postby Nat Wheatley » Sat, Jul 07 2018, 5:05AM

Ralph,

In thinking further, I'm realizing that likely is the answer. I'll give it a try next time I'm in the shop.

Thanks for the help.

Nat
http://www.plymouthcustomclosets.com

Dell Precision 490/ Intel Xeon 3.20 Ghz/3 GB RAM/ Nvidia Quadro FX 3450/ Windows XP, sp 3

Ralph Balanik
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Re: Flip Ops in SB Link

Postby Ralph Balanik » Sat, Jul 07 2018, 8:00AM

Nat,
If you need to cut a single part you would go to your load options, select only the part that you need to cut, then cut it. If it has flip operations then it usually asks you to place the material back side up if flip ops first is selected, I believe if you do not have flip ops first selected then it will cut the part then ask you to do the flip. Like I said, I usually do flip ops on the entire sheet that is nested so this is a bit unfamiliar. I do not know if there is another way to do this.

Nat Wheatley
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Re: Flip Ops in SB Link

Postby Nat Wheatley » Sat, Jul 07 2018, 2:56PM

Trying some things with this on my computer at home (not hooked to machine) and not having much luck. On the attached cabinet I select just the partition. If I nest it with 'Cut Flip Ops First' either selected, or not selected it lays out the part the same either way (all the operations are in the same position.) I would think that the nest should be a mirror image of each other to represent the operations being performed, but maybe I'm missing something.

Test.hsf
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Nat
http://www.plymouthcustomclosets.com

Dell Precision 490/ Intel Xeon 3.20 Ghz/3 GB RAM/ Nvidia Quadro FX 3450/ Windows XP, sp 3

Ralph Balanik
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Re: Flip Ops in SB Link

Postby Ralph Balanik » Sun, Jul 08 2018, 9:05AM

Nat,

When you take the partition to the link and nest it the only thing that is being cut on the back of the piece are the KD pockets. In the link in settings select view code before writing to ShopBot On my screen the Kd pockets are parralel to the Y axis. If you write it to the shopbot and then read the code if you have flip ops first selected you will see in the code that it asks for the material to be placed back side up . As you read further it will drill or cut yor pockets then it will tell you that the backside options are complete and to flip the sheet. You have to flip the piece on the x axis which keeps the KD pockets parrallel to the Y axis, so actually after you flip the piece it will not look much different because the KD pockets are quite symetrical along the edge.That being said, the flip op is not illustrated in the nest regardless of how your flip op settings are set, otherwise you would be seeing the piece illustrated in the upper left hand corner rather than the lower left hand corner of your sheet if you were truly looking at the back of the sheet. The nest only displays the face side. The only indication of a flip operation being required is that any cuts required on the back of your work piece will be highlighted in green.

Ralph Balanik
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Re: Flip Ops in SB Link

Postby Ralph Balanik » Sun, Jul 08 2018, 9:08AM

Mark Twain said someting to the effect that he had little respect for a man who could only spell a word one way so I have demonstrated my command of spelling with the word "paralllel" :lol:

Nat Wheatley
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Re: Flip Ops in SB Link

Postby Nat Wheatley » Sun, Jul 08 2018, 9:25AM

Thanks Ralph. What was throwing me off is that just the face side of the piece displays, regardless of which side is being machined. That seems odd to me and will take some getting used to.

You've had success using the flip ops first for whole sheets? I tried to do that when the Link first came out, and was never able to get a handle on it, but maybe it's been dialed in some since then.

Nat
http://www.plymouthcustomclosets.com

Dell Precision 490/ Intel Xeon 3.20 Ghz/3 GB RAM/ Nvidia Quadro FX 3450/ Windows XP, sp 3

Ralph Balanik
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Re: Flip Ops in SB Link

Postby Ralph Balanik » Sun, Jul 08 2018, 1:52PM

Nat,
Are you using the latest copy of the link? It should be 1.23.1. Unless they introduced a new one when I wasn't watching :D

Any time you have a flip operation to be done it will be highlighted in green on the sheet view of your nest. In the link settings go to nesting parameters. There is a setting that reads to the effect "try to keep parts with flip operations together in nest" . By checking this it will minimze the number of sheets that will have to be flipped, otherwise on a kitchen project, depending on what type of joinery you choose you could be flipping almost all of the sheets. This takes time and focus which can be limited to a few sheets with some planning. This is an option that I believe has been recently added so my workaround for this, and one that I choose to continue with, was to create a material called "antque white melamine .625". It was different in name only from regular .625 melamine but I used it to make all of the parts that had flip operations. When I created it I chose a different color for the sheet too so when I was creating a cabinet I could see which parts called for 2 sided machining at a glance. When I had a kitchen to build which might have 20 sheets of 5/8 melamine, it would call for say seven sheets of antique white which would have all the parts with flip operations, and the other 13 sheets of 5/8 melamine would have all of the parts requiring machining on one side only. It saves quite a bit of time and produces very little extra waste on a whole project.

Ralph Balanik
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Re: Flip Ops in SB Link

Postby Ralph Balanik » Sun, Jul 08 2018, 2:21PM

I will add one thing about doing flip operations, especially on whole sheets.If you want a precise fit, (without the use of a large hammer) it is ultimately important that your machine is set up extremely accurately. Your drill offsets have to be very precise, your gantry has to be extremely square. My y axis is out of square by about 4 thousands in four feet. Any more and I would be tuning it up. Your x and y zero positions have to be right on, your z axis has to be within 5 thousandths of zero. If not, parts won't fit together precisely or sometimes they won't fit together at all. It took four years of frustration for me to get it right because communicating the problems that I was having was difficult over the phone and there are so many variables that can contribute to a bad fit. I use a vernier caliper to measure the thickness of my sheets when I do a project and then enter that info into my file when I write the TWD for a project.

If you do not have your machine set up and you work on whole sheets you usually spoil several pieces instead of just one. Not to discourage you, it was an endurance test for me because I did not have any experience, but it is working well for me now and I would not want to do it any other way now that it is working. :)

Nat Wheatley
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Re: Flip Ops in SB Link

Postby Nat Wheatley » Sun, Jul 08 2018, 2:25PM

(Sorry, posted this before I saw your last post, reading that now...)

Thanks Ralph, that work around sounds ideal. The most recent version I'm seeing is 1.21.3 (which I don't see that that added feature to nest the flip ops together) but I'll check my shop computer to see what version is loaded there.

Nat
http://www.plymouthcustomclosets.com

Dell Precision 490/ Intel Xeon 3.20 Ghz/3 GB RAM/ Nvidia Quadro FX 3450/ Windows XP, sp 3

Nat Wheatley
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Posts: 490
Joined: Wed, Apr 15 2009, 8:22PM
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Re: Flip Ops in SB Link

Postby Nat Wheatley » Sun, Jul 08 2018, 2:38PM

My machine is fairly well tuned for this, but could definitely use a little more attention there. I've been doing 2 sided machining on my parts, but using a roundabout kind or way to do it...
http://www.plymouthcustomclosets.com

Dell Precision 490/ Intel Xeon 3.20 Ghz/3 GB RAM/ Nvidia Quadro FX 3450/ Windows XP, sp 3


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