\"The New Furniture\"

Moderators: Jason Susnjara, Larry Epplin, Clint Buechlein, Scott G Vaal

KyleHepp
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Location: Naples, FL

\"The New Furniture\"

Postby KyleHepp » Sun, Jun 24 2007, 3:48PM

wow, If you've read this click \"reply\" and say \"I\"

humble corn fields of Indiana...


To the Susnjara Family: Thank you so much for all you've done and are doing.
By the way, is there ANYONE here who would even look at anything besides a THERMWOOD?

Incidentally, I was recently approached by the owner of a Chinese Company for factory development (fee paid to me to setup and to bring online a factory in China to produce competitive high-end products)

At the earliest a couple subtle statements made by eCab foundation members made me scratch my chin and research deeper...

Though this particular instance involves an \"after the fact\" situation, I want to take this opportunity to express to everyone that eCabinets is a GRANTED bestowment. This bestowment can be revoked at anytime... this is NOT to say that I've been faced with this, I haven't. The consideration was assumed by my nature.
Patriotism and the concern for not only myself but the concern for my fellows, makes this a noteworthy point: buy ALL American, and if you sell \"apples\" for a living, then don't EVER give away apples.

eCabinets is realistically a $20k+ software program that is essentially given to us by the Susjnara Family of Indiana.

Please use eCabinets honorably. More so, participate
Participate even if it hurts for awhile, we'll all benefit!

Mark Hesketh
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Company Name: Paris Kitchens
Country: CANADA
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Postby Mark Hesketh » Mon, Jun 25 2007, 6:10AM

Well now. I can't agree more with the fact that this software is an incredible gift, virtually un-heard-of, and pretty damn good to boot! It is deffinately the users responsibility to live up to their agreements in regards to not sharing the software, etc., and also to participate to help make the software even better.

Being a Canadian though, and seeing as how we have quite the international representation here (New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, and Ireland readily come to mind), I simply have to contest the statement to buy All American... Leave it to Americans to bring patriotism into something like supporting a choice in software... :wink: (jk)

I'll just take this opportunity to once again thank those in charge for litterally giving us this great product!

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Ken Susnjara
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Postby Ken Susnjara » Mon, Jun 25 2007, 8:17AM

Thanks for the kind words but before we prematurely bestow sainthood, you should probably remember that eCabinet Systems is basically a different type of business model, not a gift. We give away the software because we believe we will have a bigger installed base and make more money in the long run than if we sell the software. As a result, our profits increase but so do the profits of tens of thousands of Members who use the software. Everybody wins.

As was said, we encourage you to buy as much as possible through the program. Today we only sell merchandise to Members in the US so those in other countries cannot buy through the software even if they want to. We hope to begin allowing purchases outside the US soon but there are legal and technical hurdles that must be addressed. Everyone, regardless of where you are located is encouraged to buy Thermwood CNC routers when you are ready for a router, because that is a major benefit we get from the program.

So far the program has been working well for us and we believe that it has been a major benefit for a lot of cabinet shops. We will continue trying to find new ways to enhance this new business model that help both our Members and ourselves.

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Paul Ellis
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Postby Paul Ellis » Mon, Jun 25 2007, 9:42AM

Ken wrote
We hope to begin allowing purchases outside the US soon but there are legal and technical hurdles that must be addressed.


I can't wait to be able to do that!

And I second ?third? the sentiments before that.
Paul Ellis

"If it works, don't fix it"

Jeff Blewitt
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Postby Jeff Blewitt » Tue, Jun 26 2007, 9:11PM

Leave it to Americans to bring patriotism into something like supporting a choice in software


Wow would I love to address this coment from a country whoose very existence has on numerous occaissions been defended by the spilt blood and lives of my American brothers. But this is not the place for that, and our Canadian friends can't possibly understand the tremendous market pressures that American policies of free trade, and open borders have created. But making it possible for EVERYONE to be successful is what America is all about and Ken, his team, and e-Cabs software are living examples of American Patriotism, and American Capitolism in my book. Some of us do everything we can to participate the ideal that that everyone should have an even playing feild to compete on. Unfortunately others just like it 'cause they can take advantage of it for free.
-Jeff

Mark Hesketh
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Company Name: Paris Kitchens
Country: CANADA
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Postby Mark Hesketh » Wed, Jun 27 2007, 6:13AM

sigh...

Jeff Blewitt
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Postby Jeff Blewitt » Wed, Jun 27 2007, 8:18AM

EXACTLY the reaction I expected. No pride, No honor, and no backbone. Won't even speak up to defend your own position. What's wrong Mark? Didn't realize you were supporting Capitolism and the American Way?
-Jeff

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Kerry Fullington
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Postby Kerry Fullington » Wed, Jun 27 2007, 8:32AM

If I can step in here.
Please use PM for this kind of stuff. Staying away from this type of discussion is what makes this forum so special.
Stick to discussions on cabinets and software please.

Kerry

Jeff Blewitt
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Location: lawrenceville, GA

Postby Jeff Blewitt » Wed, Jun 27 2007, 8:43AM

Agreed Kerry. And thanks for \"moment of enlightenment.\" Dad used to just throw a bucket of cold water on us!

But I would suggest that this issue goes to the very core of why a program like e-cabs, and a company like Thermwood exists. And I for one e-Cabs forum Member with the same rights as every other member feel it's entirely appropriate to discuss here. Especially in this context.
-Jeff

herb zacks
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Postby herb zacks » Thu, Jul 05 2007, 8:14PM

I think that the therwood business model is exactly what america and the planet could use. In the \"New Furniture\" agreat argument is made about the unique trade we work in. The little guy can still compete. I am a one man shop in San Francisco Bay area. I am super busy, blessed by location. Real estate is super expensive here and the many wealthy people here want tricked out cabinetry. Before I grow any bit with employees, I want to master Ecabs. I think the design program should set my shop procedures. I am desperalty looking for someone to route them. Eventually I would get a router myself. I would love that the average homehobbyist downloads the program, them comes to me to machine it. I think that people realize IKEA is Crap but can't get what they want from anywhere else. As ecabs is discovered, the average hobbyist could create his own cabs and and have someone local(me) machine them. This way the material is bought local, ecological, the moey I earn stays in the community. Keeping the economy local, shutting out the multinational conglomerates is the only way any region of the world will be able to stay in a decent standard of living.

Michael S Murray
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Postby Michael S Murray » Fri, Jul 06 2007, 7:55AM

Hi Herb,
I like the spirit of your post, but dont be under the illusion that the average homeowner hobbiest will ever be sending you files that are workable. The software is meant to be used by professional cabinet shops only. I for one would like to see it remain this way.
Mike Murray
Versatile Cabinet & Solid Surface
mike@versatilecabinet.com
http://www.versatilecabinet.com

Michael Yeargain
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Postby Michael Yeargain » Sat, Jul 07 2007, 8:11AM

I agree with Michael's statement Herb,

In so much that this down loadable thought of a homeowner tricking the very cabinets you plan to make a living on is not the greatest. After all do you remember how long it is taking you to master this system, And for a home owner to manipulate a set of cabinets and you cut them out is asking for a many nonpayment times because of litigation's. \"Well they should have double checked my work\" or \" I wasn't aware of that in the program.

You can't even put a lean on the house either. So you have no legal recourse to recover your money. I don't know about you but that money I work hard for is very precious. After all it afforded me the week long mountainous vacation I just got back from. :wink:

I may be wrong about this. I think I heard rumor about Big Box participation in the software somehow, using standard cabinet directories submited by the local shops. They make the designs and sales at the Big Box stores, and outsource the job to the shop who submitted the cabinet directories. This way there is a part on each parties of liability. The local shop for proper cabinets that they are responsible for and Big Box for layout and design. Again I think I remember a topic on this.
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Raymond Beausoleil
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Postby Raymond Beausoleil » Tue, Jul 10 2007, 9:55AM

Regarding the comments about the average homeowner using eCabinets and sending files to a local shop.

That's exactly what I did and plan to do more of. I took a basic cabinet making workshop with Mitch Cain (a contributing member of this forum) who exposed us to eCabinets. He also referred me to Bill Rutherford of Northwoods Manufacturing (also another contributing member of this forum). Did I get the first cabinet right the first time? Of course not but reading this forum and with help from both Mitch and Bill it was a successful project! And Bill shipped parts out of town to my daughter's home in Denver where I assembled it. She likes it much better than the IKEA unit she was originally planning to purchase.

Did I take work away from a local cabinet shop? Of course not. I provided a small job for an eCabinet shop that would instead have gone to IKEA.

Now that I've successfully tested out this process I'm designing an entire kitchen, a large walk-in closet, and a bookshelf/entertainment system for a house to be built soon. Do I expect my design to be flawless? No, but I will give it due dilligence and read as many forum posts as I can to resolve issues before asking for help. Hopefully I will eventually be able to contribute to this forum as well. Will I be taking work away from a local cabinet shop? Absolutely not, most homebuilders (in my price range) send you to their 'cabinet design' vendor who quotes off-the-shelf Kraftmaid units. I'd much prefer to design it myself in eCabinets and work with a professional company such as Northwoods Manufacturing and get a much higher quality and better looking product!

And finally, regarding the comment about eCabinets software should be left to 'professionals'...the whole premise of eCabinets and Thermwood's business model is to provide the tools and methods for large and small businesses to compete for the consumer's dollars. Innovate or die. You can't legislate anti-competitiveness by claiming only professionals should be allowed in. I believe other members of Mitch's cabinet class were planning to investigate this as well. Who knows, maybe these average home owners may take this to the next level and start their own business.

Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic !

Michael S Murray
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Postby Michael S Murray » Tue, Jul 10 2007, 10:45AM

Hi Raymond,
I will defend my statement. Your AVERAGE homeowner would only end up with a mess on his hands to undertake this software and espescially if sending files they actually created straight to the router. You mentioned taking cabinet making classes, the average Homeowner does not take cabinet making classes.The average homeowner would also never spend the hours needed to learn this software, not even the basics. I would be interested in learning how you aqcuired your software. I was under the impression that since there is a substantial cost for Thermwood to provide this software that they were only knowingly providing it to professional shops who had the potential to return to them some of their investment. NOt intending to supply it to curiousity seekers or casual users.Good luck to you, I am sure your projects will turn out, BUT, Like I said I dont see the average homeowner ever using this software to produce workable over all desings or specific cabinet designs ready to go to the machine.I am also sure that this was not the intent of Thermwood.
Mike Murray

Versatile Cabinet & Solid Surface

mike@versatilecabinet.com

http://www.versatilecabinet.com

Mark Hesketh
Guru Member
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri, Aug 25 2006, 9:12AM
Company Name: Paris Kitchens
Country: CANADA
Location: Paris, ontario

Postby Mark Hesketh » Tue, Jul 10 2007, 10:50AM

Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic !


LOL, great quote!


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