I have been playing with a couple of Cabinet design programs. Ecabs seem so much harder than the others. I was just wondering why (other than price) you chose Ecabs over the others.
I build Cabinets and Furniture and I am looking for a one stop solution to do my drawings, estimates cutlist, and optimization.
I do feel that Ecabs provides a level of flexibility that the others do not. But I have been playing with ecabs for a few months and I still cant figure out a lot of the things in the program. I had KCDw for a couple of hours and I was able to design a whole kitchen. I have talked to customer support and they are very helpful. I guess taking a class would help but availability is an issue. I like the flexibility that ecabs has that KCDw does not. But is the time to learn worth the cost of free admission.
Your Thoughts
Greg
Why Ecab
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Gregory Hairston
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Why Ecab
Successful people do the things others won't
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DanEpps
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Greg
You will probably get pretty much the same answer from everyone here.
When I started looking for software I was very open-minded and looked at pretty much all of the offerings. Price was never an issue although I certainly didn't want to pay several thousand dollars for software that only came close to meeting my needs.
While no software package will ever meet all of everyone's needs, eCabinets is the most flexible and powerful CUSTOM cabinet and furniture design spftware package available--at any price.
Many other packages may be easier to use out-of-the-box, none have the flexibility eCabinets does.
The support from both Thermwood and this forum is second to none. Just try asking one of the other vendors to change their software to meet your needs. If they even consider it they will surely give you a very hefty price tag for the customization. Thermwood welcomes and listens to every user suggestion for improvement to eCabinets.
A training class will certainly get you up to speed quickly but many of us (me included) have never taken a class and do quite well with eCabinets. Early on I asked a lot of questions and called tech support a lot. Then I experimented--a LOT!
Give eCabinets a good trial. Ask lots of questions, both in the forum and to Thermwood's tech support. You will get fast answers and many times, several alternatives to accomplishing what you want to do.
Read \"eCabinet Systems Made Easy\", located on the help menu. Don't get overwhelmed and frustrated by the volume of information in it. Take it slow, one step at a time and you will soon be zooming along.
You will probably get pretty much the same answer from everyone here.
When I started looking for software I was very open-minded and looked at pretty much all of the offerings. Price was never an issue although I certainly didn't want to pay several thousand dollars for software that only came close to meeting my needs.
While no software package will ever meet all of everyone's needs, eCabinets is the most flexible and powerful CUSTOM cabinet and furniture design spftware package available--at any price.
Many other packages may be easier to use out-of-the-box, none have the flexibility eCabinets does.
The support from both Thermwood and this forum is second to none. Just try asking one of the other vendors to change their software to meet your needs. If they even consider it they will surely give you a very hefty price tag for the customization. Thermwood welcomes and listens to every user suggestion for improvement to eCabinets.
A training class will certainly get you up to speed quickly but many of us (me included) have never taken a class and do quite well with eCabinets. Early on I asked a lot of questions and called tech support a lot. Then I experimented--a LOT!
Give eCabinets a good trial. Ask lots of questions, both in the forum and to Thermwood's tech support. You will get fast answers and many times, several alternatives to accomplishing what you want to do.
Read \"eCabinet Systems Made Easy\", located on the help menu. Don't get overwhelmed and frustrated by the volume of information in it. Take it slow, one step at a time and you will soon be zooming along.
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Kerry Fullington
- Wizard Member
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Greg,
You stated my reason for choosing eCabinet Systems Software.
It is that \"Flexibility\" that the others do not have.
Using eCabinets I can design anything that I want to build. I am not limited by what the software is capable of. I am only limited by my talent and the amount of effort that I want to put into it.
I have developed my own cabinet libraries so I can\"Drag and Drop\" designs for kitchens like KCDW when I just need a cut list but I like the fact that when I need it I can create any part or molding profile that I need. I am working on design for a Goddard and Townsend block front chest on chest. There aren't many \"Cabinet Design\" software packages that will allow me to show all of the mortise and tenon joinery as well as the shell carvings. You can't design peices likeThis with most other cabinet design software.
Using eCabinet Systems I can design mantels, paneled walls, vent hoods, any island or free standing cabinet that I can dream up. I even use eCabinets to do my stage set designs for theatre productions.
I also like the fact that the folks at eCabinets listen to everything that their members say and add features accordingly. If you wish for something hard enough it will come true. They are dedicated to making eCabinet Systems the best software for the most of it's users. In a short five or six years they have been able to make eCabinets one of the most respected cabinet design software packages available at any cost.
I choose eCabinet Systems because it is the best software for my purposes.
To answer your last question. Once you are able to design anything that comes into your head using eCabinets, Yes, it will be worth the time it took to learn it.
Kerry
You stated my reason for choosing eCabinet Systems Software.
It is that \"Flexibility\" that the others do not have.
Using eCabinets I can design anything that I want to build. I am not limited by what the software is capable of. I am only limited by my talent and the amount of effort that I want to put into it.
I have developed my own cabinet libraries so I can\"Drag and Drop\" designs for kitchens like KCDW when I just need a cut list but I like the fact that when I need it I can create any part or molding profile that I need. I am working on design for a Goddard and Townsend block front chest on chest. There aren't many \"Cabinet Design\" software packages that will allow me to show all of the mortise and tenon joinery as well as the shell carvings. You can't design peices likeThis with most other cabinet design software.
Using eCabinet Systems I can design mantels, paneled walls, vent hoods, any island or free standing cabinet that I can dream up. I even use eCabinets to do my stage set designs for theatre productions.
I also like the fact that the folks at eCabinets listen to everything that their members say and add features accordingly. If you wish for something hard enough it will come true. They are dedicated to making eCabinet Systems the best software for the most of it's users. In a short five or six years they have been able to make eCabinets one of the most respected cabinet design software packages available at any cost.
I choose eCabinet Systems because it is the best software for my purposes.
To answer your last question. Once you are able to design anything that comes into your head using eCabinets, Yes, it will be worth the time it took to learn it.
Kerry
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Glenn Warner
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One reason is the support, this forum in particular. I have not encountered another software package where the developers provide almost instantaneous responses to questions. \"Post the file and we'll have a look at it\" is a common response. Who else does that?
Another reason is the track record. The Thermwood team says what they're gonna do and then delivers. Look at the history of releases and enhancements. They listen to the user community. Continuous improvement, including usability and new features have been demonstrated over and over.
If you can't take the classes, see if there is a user close by who has mastered the software and spend some time with them. Almost all ecabs users have at one time or another hit the learning curve wall. Most times I believe this is because of the \"it doesn't work the way I think it should\" mentality.
Another reason is the track record. The Thermwood team says what they're gonna do and then delivers. Look at the history of releases and enhancements. They listen to the user community. Continuous improvement, including usability and new features have been demonstrated over and over.
If you can't take the classes, see if there is a user close by who has mastered the software and spend some time with them. Almost all ecabs users have at one time or another hit the learning curve wall. Most times I believe this is because of the \"it doesn't work the way I think it should\" mentality.
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Damon Nabors
- eCabinets Beta Tester
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Greg,
As Dan and Kerry have already said, with e-cab, you get a level of support that you probably will not get from other companies. I have one of those other high dollar software packages that I do not use any more. I can't seem to remember what it was called??? Something to do with astronomers and prophecies. Hummmm!!! Anyway, you may be alot like I am. I have a small two man shop and time is of the upmost importance to me. I did not want to take the time to play around with the software and try to figure it out on my own. I am the type of person that wants an answer now. After I had a bad experience with the other software, it was time to upgrade or change. I already had e-cab but did not use it because I did not want to invest the time in learning it. I chose to take the 5-day class in Dale, In. and all of a sudden the big light came on
. This is not so hard after all. Once you get past the learning curve you'll be fine with this software.
I have told this story before, but I'll tell it again. Just a few months ago I had a rendering I needed to take to a customer for approval on a job. As usual I waited to the last minute and it would not render correctly. I posted the problem on the forum and within maybe an hour or two, the programmers took my file corrected my problem and sent it back to me so I could make my presentation. Try getting that kind of service from one of those other companies. When you do, please let us know.
Anyway keep on practicing and don't give up. I am about 15 minutes from Memphis and would be willing to help you in anyway possible.
BTW,
Damon Nabors
As Dan and Kerry have already said, with e-cab, you get a level of support that you probably will not get from other companies. I have one of those other high dollar software packages that I do not use any more. I can't seem to remember what it was called??? Something to do with astronomers and prophecies. Hummmm!!! Anyway, you may be alot like I am. I have a small two man shop and time is of the upmost importance to me. I did not want to take the time to play around with the software and try to figure it out on my own. I am the type of person that wants an answer now. After I had a bad experience with the other software, it was time to upgrade or change. I already had e-cab but did not use it because I did not want to invest the time in learning it. I chose to take the 5-day class in Dale, In. and all of a sudden the big light came on
. This is not so hard after all. Once you get past the learning curve you'll be fine with this software. I have told this story before, but I'll tell it again. Just a few months ago I had a rendering I needed to take to a customer for approval on a job. As usual I waited to the last minute and it would not render correctly. I posted the problem on the forum and within maybe an hour or two, the programmers took my file corrected my problem and sent it back to me so I could make my presentation. Try getting that kind of service from one of those other companies. When you do, please let us know.
Anyway keep on practicing and don't give up. I am about 15 minutes from Memphis and would be willing to help you in anyway possible.
BTW,
Damon Nabors
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Gregory Hairston
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Gregory Hairston
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- Location: Memphis Tn
ok here is truth.
1. I have a MACPRO desktop computer. I can run ecabs under parallells but it gives me fits. I could do a dual boot (Bootcamp)and run as a PC and it would probably work. I just purchased a new laptop for work but it has Vista. I guess I am getting a little frustrated by the roadblocks of the softwart.
2. KCDw is real easy to design. It does not do cutlist well and most who use it, also use other programs for optimization and estimating.
3. CV is just too expensive for the small shop owner (IMHO)
4. ECab does have a learning curve but I have to admitt I want instant results and I have not dedicated time to making it work.
5. If I could find someone close (like in Marion Arkansas) to sit down with me for a few hours I think I would buy them and their family Dinner
Greg
1. I have a MACPRO desktop computer. I can run ecabs under parallells but it gives me fits. I could do a dual boot (Bootcamp)and run as a PC and it would probably work. I just purchased a new laptop for work but it has Vista. I guess I am getting a little frustrated by the roadblocks of the softwart.
2. KCDw is real easy to design. It does not do cutlist well and most who use it, also use other programs for optimization and estimating.
3. CV is just too expensive for the small shop owner (IMHO)
4. ECab does have a learning curve but I have to admitt I want instant results and I have not dedicated time to making it work.
5. If I could find someone close (like in Marion Arkansas) to sit down with me for a few hours I think I would buy them and their family Dinner
Greg
Successful people do the things others won't
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Rick Palechuk
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DanEpps
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Don't feel bad about your first response...I'm lazy too. 
Asking the reverse question of yourself usually provides the best insight into your motivation for resisting something (applies to just about anything, not just whether or not to learn eCabinets).
Let's look at your other answers (in reverse order).
5. It looks like Damon is a really good solution there (you could help him cut out some reindeer
).
4. Any software will have a learning curve attached to it. The more powerful and complex the software, usually the longer the learning curve. You will have to dedicate the time, both for learning and for practice (and expanding your skills). Software (of any kind) that can provide instant results is usually lacking in flexibility and features.
3. I think we all agree to that...none of us want to invest thousands in a software package.
2. Having additional programs to make up for missing or under-powered features adds to the total cost of ownership. It also adds greatly to the complexity of achieving the results you want. When you have to do part of your design in one program and the rest in another program (or two or three), you greatly increase the likelihood of making mistakes in entering information.
1. What kind of laptop do you have? Is it listed as a recommended configuration by Thermwood? The Dell Precision Mobile Workstations can be ordered with XP Pro instead of Vista. They are true workstation-class computers that have the horsepower necessary for demanding software such as eCabinets.
Compatibility with Vista is \"in the cards\" for eCabinets--either version 5.2 (around the first of the year) or version 6.0 (maybe mid-year?). eCabinets will work now with Vista provided it is installed using \"Run as Administrator\" and has XP compatibility turned on. You can also turn off User Account Control (UAC) on Vista and eCabinets should run fine but you give up the security \"features\" of Vista in doing so.
Even if you were to decide to purchase a Dell Precision mobile Workstation with XP Pro, it would cost far less than any of the other software packages.
Let me go back to your number 5 answer and add to it. Not only is Damon a great (local) resource, all of us here in the forum will help in any way we can. Damon is probably the only one that will be willing to drive to Memphis though
(its about a six hour drive for me).
I hope this will give you the information to make your decision and the motivation to choose eCabinets.
Asking the reverse question of yourself usually provides the best insight into your motivation for resisting something (applies to just about anything, not just whether or not to learn eCabinets).
Let's look at your other answers (in reverse order).
5. It looks like Damon is a really good solution there (you could help him cut out some reindeer
).4. Any software will have a learning curve attached to it. The more powerful and complex the software, usually the longer the learning curve. You will have to dedicate the time, both for learning and for practice (and expanding your skills). Software (of any kind) that can provide instant results is usually lacking in flexibility and features.
3. I think we all agree to that...none of us want to invest thousands in a software package.
2. Having additional programs to make up for missing or under-powered features adds to the total cost of ownership. It also adds greatly to the complexity of achieving the results you want. When you have to do part of your design in one program and the rest in another program (or two or three), you greatly increase the likelihood of making mistakes in entering information.
1. What kind of laptop do you have? Is it listed as a recommended configuration by Thermwood? The Dell Precision Mobile Workstations can be ordered with XP Pro instead of Vista. They are true workstation-class computers that have the horsepower necessary for demanding software such as eCabinets.
Compatibility with Vista is \"in the cards\" for eCabinets--either version 5.2 (around the first of the year) or version 6.0 (maybe mid-year?). eCabinets will work now with Vista provided it is installed using \"Run as Administrator\" and has XP compatibility turned on. You can also turn off User Account Control (UAC) on Vista and eCabinets should run fine but you give up the security \"features\" of Vista in doing so.
Even if you were to decide to purchase a Dell Precision mobile Workstation with XP Pro, it would cost far less than any of the other software packages.
Let me go back to your number 5 answer and add to it. Not only is Damon a great (local) resource, all of us here in the forum will help in any way we can. Damon is probably the only one that will be willing to drive to Memphis though
(its about a six hour drive for me).I hope this will give you the information to make your decision and the motivation to choose eCabinets.
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Dean Fehribach
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Re:
Actually, Boot Camp would be the preferred method because you are booting directly into Windows. The Mac Pro is a tower pc that's upgradeable as long as the upgrades are mac-compatible. The Mac Pro has the nVidia Quadro FX 4500 OpenGL Workstation graphics card as an option.Rick Palechuk wrote:Greg, I've heard (now someone step in and correct me if I'm wrong) that Bootcamp doesn't allow a clear pathway for efficient use of the graphical adaptor. Nor is upgrade possible on the Mac.
Dean Fehribach
I.S. Mgr., Thermwood
Dell Workstation T1650 / XEON E3 / 8GB RAM / 1GB nVidia Quadro 600 / Windows 8 Pro x64
I.S. Mgr., Thermwood
Dell Workstation T1650 / XEON E3 / 8GB RAM / 1GB nVidia Quadro 600 / Windows 8 Pro x64
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Damon Nabors
- eCabinets Beta Tester
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Hey Dan, I posted my Reindeer file, I am not sure if Greg is going to help cut out the reindeer. With the two pieces I can not close the contour on, they will not have antlers. Its deer season here and we can't shoot anything with out antlers.
Greg gave me a call and we did a hour or so tutorial and at the end I heard a big AHHHHH, I see. I think maybe now he can see the forrest beyond the trees.
Damon
Greg gave me a call and we did a hour or so tutorial and at the end I heard a big AHHHHH, I see. I think maybe now he can see the forrest beyond the trees.
Damon
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DanEpps
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Re:
Come to Georgia...here is our regular season limits:Damon Nabors wrote:Hey Dan, I posted my Reindeer file, I am not sure if Greg is going to help cut out the reindeer. With the two pieces I can not close the contour on, they will not have antlers. Its deer season here and we can't shoot anything with out antlers.
If you add all the quota hunts, WMAs, etc, you can take close to 400 deer this season!!!12 per season, Statewide
No more than 10 may be antlerless
and no more than 2 may be antlered.
One (1) of the 2 antlered deer must
have at least 4 points, one inch or
longer, on one side of the antlers.
GREAT!!!Greg gave me a call and we did a hour or so tutorial and at the end I heard a big AHHHHH, I see. I think maybe now he can see the forrest beyond the trees.
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Rick Palechuk
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DaleKern
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Greg,
I'm compelled to add one more reason to learn eCabinets. Production sharing. It is nice to learn the software and be able to produce the renderings, cost estimates, cutlists, etc. But once you have the design and make a few projects you might, as I was, be tempted to email a job to another member of this forum and have the project cut out for you using a Thermwood router. The resulting capability will astound you. Design at your desk using the same tool used to cut the project out. Near zero opportunity for errors to be introduced. And now you have the ability to tackle jobs much larger and more complex than you would ever think about even bidding. And if you were ever considering the purchase of a router - what better way to learn the ropes: Have access to someone elses machine, at nominal expense, to verify the capabilities of your imagination. This was the real difference maker to me, and pushed me to continue to learn eCabinets.
Dale
I'm compelled to add one more reason to learn eCabinets. Production sharing. It is nice to learn the software and be able to produce the renderings, cost estimates, cutlists, etc. But once you have the design and make a few projects you might, as I was, be tempted to email a job to another member of this forum and have the project cut out for you using a Thermwood router. The resulting capability will astound you. Design at your desk using the same tool used to cut the project out. Near zero opportunity for errors to be introduced. And now you have the ability to tackle jobs much larger and more complex than you would ever think about even bidding. And if you were ever considering the purchase of a router - what better way to learn the ropes: Have access to someone elses machine, at nominal expense, to verify the capabilities of your imagination. This was the real difference maker to me, and pushed me to continue to learn eCabinets.
Dale