Ecabs would not start in front of a customer

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Jason Susnjara
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Postby Jason Susnjara » Mon, Nov 19 2007, 10:01AM

Hi Mike,

I'm sorry to hear about your latest experience with the software. There is a reason why eCabinets needs to be renewed. Because we utilize other software companies like Hoops, Lightworks, etc... for the software and because we give the software away for free, we have to pay license fees on a yearly basis. These license fees are based on eCabinet registrations. Per our contract we have to update the software yearly. The software should warn the user that the time is about to expire giving you a countdown of 10 days. We also post on the forum about the update as well as email all members about this expiration ahead of time. With other software brands, you need to purchase the software and with that you recieve a dongle (hasp) in order for the software to work. Sometimes these hasps will have problems with them leaving you to wait until the software company sends you a new one.

thanks,
Jason Susnjara
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Postby Paul Ellis » Mon, Nov 19 2007, 10:14AM

Jason wrote
... and because we give the software away for free, we have to pay license fees on a yearly basis.


See how nice Thermwood is to us...they take the wrap for giving something away for free...(Only joking!) :lol: :wink:
Paul Ellis

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Postby Forrest Chapman » Mon, Nov 19 2007, 2:25PM

I had this happen one time while away from the shop. I told the customer it was no big deal and I needed 15 minutes to make it right, got in my truck and went down the road to a coffee shop. 5 minutes later I had the update loaded and was on my way back to the customers. Every situation is different though and I do understand the frustration with needing something and not having it.

Forrest

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Postby Rob Davis » Mon, Nov 19 2007, 4:56PM

I was one guy who can tell you that the program DID warn me that it was about to expire. I had difficulty uploading the update and every day I turned it on, eCabs would warn me I had only so many days before the program expired. I know because I had to get Thermwood to help me download it as I was on a 2 day deadline to have the lights go out!

I am also one who is not always using eCabs every day and use it in spurts it seems so I was lucky that I opened it 6 days before I met the expiration date. It took me 4 days to get it downloaded, most likely becasue I was the operator. We use MasterCam a lot on our router and use standard cabs from our big library for cutting lots of jobs so we don't always need to run eCabs to run a job.

I sympathize with Mike, and I hope he was just venting some steam and maybe regrets his casting Thermwood in a poor light. We've all said stuff we wish we could take back so I am reluctant to pile on and cast a stone at him. Been there, done that.

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Postby David Norton » Mon, Nov 19 2007, 8:39PM

Just my 2 cents worth here. 1st let me say that I have been away from Ecabs for about 18 months now. I have been delving into other software, in the hopes of augmenting my Ecabs images. In all that time I have always been notified by Thermwood of an expiration of the software in a very timely fashion.

Mike, I am sorry that you might have gotten a bit of egg on your face. But like others have said this should not have happened.

Hope you were able to recover. But plz don't throw Thermwood under the bus for something you should have checked. Thermwood is the \"only\" CNC company that provides the support that we all crave.

A shop that I deal with \"every\" day just bought a different brand of CNC. Shame on them, they will spend 30 grand on software which can't compete with Thermwood's support . On top of that they were told that they would be 90 days before they were operational with said CNC. What a total bummer!

Mike you have the training and the best support system in the business.
JMHO! Use this and remember what you have learned from this lesson.

Again it's just my 2 cent's worth. And remember opinions are akin to butthole's . Need I say more!
Dave Norton

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Postby mikesand » Mon, Nov 19 2007, 10:06PM

I've never seen a warning (but I have the auto update feature enabled so i guess I wouldnt ever have the software go so long without updating.
I looked through my emails and did not see anything from Ecabs other than the usual sale flyers.

I use several other pieces of software as well and depending on what I am doing (remodeling, furniture, or cabinetry) I use different products. Sometimes I can go a month with out using ecabs. I had no reason to \"check over\" the file, I had already done that. I didn't know for certain that I would even need to use Ecabs because I had a series of renderings that covered everything as well.

I am not complaining about the renewal, that is no big deal. But I should not have been left high and dry like that. There needs to be a warning system in the software. 10 days is not enough. I am sue that many of us go that long without using the software.

So, yes I am blaming Therm Wood. Not for being mean or difficult. I have spoken to Ken and Jason on the phone as well as others in the organisation, they are all great help. But the company is certaintly responsible for for problem. Yes, there are things that I could have done to prevent that from happening. The same can be said about most such things. But, (despite my time on this forum, in thermwood's classroom and spent reading all the litriture) I was not aware of this issue.

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Re:

Postby Mike Seisser » Mon, Nov 19 2007, 11:42PM

In your original post, you alluded to the fact that this job was a 'big deal'. Very important. Etc, etc. But it wasn't important enough to have even looked at your files ONCE before said meeting in the last 30 days? Who you crappin'? Look, I understand your frustration, having spent 13 years in the computer graphics industry before becoming a wood butcher. Your lack of observation of their protocol does NOT make them the bad guy.

You and Gene Davis should get together and start your own software company. :lol:

Seriously, let it go.

Mike
Proper Planning Prevents Poor Production.

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Re:

Postby DanEpps » Tue, Nov 20 2007, 7:50AM

I appologize in advance to anyone who may be offended by my tone in this post, but it is time users started to take responsibility for their failure to keep eCabinets updated as required.

mikesand wrote:I've never seen a warning (but I have the auto update feature enabled so i guess I wouldnt ever have the software go so long without updating.
I looked through my emails and did not see anything from Ecabs other than the usual sale flyers...


First, auto update has absolutely NOTHING to do with eCabinets--it is for Microsoft products ONLY!

Unless you changed email addresses since registering (and you apparently did not since you got other Thermwood emails), then you certainly received notification of the impending expiration. The emails are sent to ALL REGISTERED USERS, not just some.

...There needs to be a warning system in the software. 10 days is not enough...


There is a warning and 10 days certainly is enough. Even if it had been 60 days you probably would have chosen to ignore it. All you had to do was start the software before heading out to your appointment but YOU chose not to do so.

...So, yes I am blaming Therm Wood...


Why? For YOUR failure to make sure everything was in order BEFORE going to your appointment? Thermwood did not force you to go to the appointment without at least starting up the software to be certain everything was working and your presentation was complete.

...But the company is certaintly responsible for for problem. Yes, there are things that I could have done to prevent that from happening. The same can be said about most such things. But, (despite my time on this forum, in thermwood's classroom and spent reading all the litriture) I was not aware of this issue.


The company is CERTAINLY NOT responsible for your failures. I suppose when you screw up a job with the wrong materials or paint instead of stain, that is someone else's fault too.

If you spent the time on the forum, as you say you do, you would have seen the sticky announcement at the top of the forum notifying everyone about the latest build.

Grow up and accept responsibility for YOUR shortcomings! Stop blaming others for what YOU do or don't do!

Thermwood has been extremely generous in providing this great software FREE OF CHARGE. We users must take responsilility for how we use it. Part of that responsibility is keeping the software up to date.

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Postby DanEpps » Tue, Nov 20 2007, 7:55AM

Just in case you still do see the announcement at the top of the forum, here it is.
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Damon Nabors
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Postby Damon Nabors » Tue, Nov 20 2007, 8:23AM

Dan, you may want to try decaf in the morning. :lol: Take a deep breath and breath out slowly.

But yes, I do have to agree with everything you said.

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Jason Susnjara
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Postby Jason Susnjara » Tue, Nov 20 2007, 8:51AM

Hi Mike,

The software at one point did warn the members that the software was going to expire in 30 days. This warning would pop up everytime you open the software for 30 days. For the majority of members this was an annoyance. Therefore we decided to drop it to 10 days.

I did some checking and it seems that we might have a different email address than the one you have listed on this forum. I will pm you about this.

thanks,
Jason Susnjara
V.P., Marketing
Thermwood Corp.

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Postby Michael S Murray » Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:01AM

Dan is on point on this. It is amazing how ungrateful some people can be. Once again, it is not perfect nor will it ever be, nothing is to every one.I doubt any one who does not open there cabinet program for 10 days or 30 days can be called a professional cabinetmaker. I ask once again, who is forcing a certain few users to use e-cabs? I am betting that thermwood would give you your money back for the software.. :P :P :P It is the users responsibility to make sure there e-mail is correct and to check for updates on the forum, does any one beleive that thermwood has nothing better to do than run down the occasional casual user of e-cabs and make sure there updating there software, IN case they might need it.
Mike Murray
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Postby mikesand » Tue, Nov 20 2007, 11:08PM

I cant believe how brutal yall are.

Dan you especially surprise me, after a year or more of following your work I respect your abilities. I use the techniques you shared with me in my renderings to this day. Or maybe it was Kerry, I forget.

I was not referring to windows update.. I am referring to Ecabs built in update utility that checks for updates every time you start it.

I did use the software in the last month, but the times I used it there was not a Internet connection available.

I certainly would not have ignored any warnings. That is not me.

Probably what hurts me the most is the sujestion that because I am not running the software weekly I am not a professional. I am certain that I spend as much time as any of you in the shop or on the job site.

I never suggested that Ecabs is not a great program (I am not only referring to the software, but the whole cooperative). I have stated here and on other forums that the Ecabs system has completely revolutionised my business. I spent more than $3,000 on production sharing this year. I was one of the first in the network to tackle dovetails and I uncovered issues in the process, which seem to have been attended to by the T-team. I know every feature of the software intimately. I have literally built my shop around the program, tailoring the layout and machinery to the idea of production sharing. We are talking serious commitment. The only thing I haven't done is buy a router, but for now I like the flexibility that production sharing allows me.

I must have really came off as a real a-hole for yall to come down on me like this. But you have to understand that I was mortified to find out that the software has a \"time out\" feature on it. After all this time, how could I not know? Again I took the classes I read the posts.... When a new update is posted I wait until I see the responses. Some updates have affected .esj files and caused some of yall a lot of trouble. The sticky that Dan was so nice to highlight says nothing about the expiration issue. Neither does any of the emails I received.

I generally don't like to post my work on the net, but just so yall can rest assured that I am not a \"keyboard carpenter\" here are a few of my recent jobs.

Mike
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mikesand
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Postby mikesand » Tue, Nov 20 2007, 11:31PM

Here are some more, there is a max 3 attatchments.

The table is something that I am particulary proud of. I finished it last week (one of the reasons I didnt spend time going over the presentation that I had already gone over) The legs are 1/2\" cold rolled steel that I bent with a shop made jig and welded at the bottom. The legs enter the under side of the table at perfect tangents to the sweep of the leg AND tangent to the curvature of the underside of the table. The holes ranged from 15 to 80 degrees off the surface (or a line tangent to the curvature of the surface). Also they are angled with respect to the sides of the table. The finish is a traditionaly pumiced grain filled french polish. The legs are symetrical about two axis when viewed from the front or side. The only power tools used was a hand drill in a shop made jig to drill the crazy holes. The underside is hand carved with a very large gouge to give a scalloped effect. The design is completely origional, and the piece was comissioned design unseen.

Now I feel like the a-hole who has to show their work to justify their argument. I hate to play that card, indeed I never show my work unsolisited. I just want yall to understand that I am not a fool or generally irresponsible. I was caught unaware of a quirk in the program and it cost me a lot of time and pride. I shared my frustration not to bash Ecabs, but in hopes that someone will have seen it and not make the same mistake. Or even better perhaps the dev-team can come up with another way to renew the liscenses.

I hope yall can empathyse with my problem.

Mike
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Rick Palechuk
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Postby Rick Palechuk » Wed, Nov 21 2007, 1:41AM

It's time to throw down the torches and pitch-forks. We're all brothers in this. We all stand up for our software. The time is now that we forgive and forget, and put an end to this thread.


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