Adjustable Shelf Holes Wish

[Michael S Murray]

Oh Yeah, so I see Dan, guess I should have read your post instead of scanning over it.

Gene,
I am not telling the Man how to run his shop, just stating an example of how my thought's have changed on the topic. I am the kind of guy who will rework a library full of cabinets if I see one little thing I can improve on for either quality,function, or ease of assembly. At a point in my life I thought that I had discovered the ultimite with the 32mm system holes, now I look at it much differently.

For the guy with a panel saw and high dollar line borer, its probably still the way to go. I dont think it should be a priority for the smart guys developing this software, but I am sure it is to those still using e-cabs,saw and boring machine.

[Michael Yeargain]

Georgi,

I don't know why you became offensive in your posts. I don't see where anyone has blasted you directly unless you took it personally. Your suggestion (as I said) is a good one, but for the time being there is a solution.

However insignificant this may seem to you, I once made a wish for the option to install wall cabinets from a specified height from the floor. The response I got was something about the way Kerry installs his cabinets. I don't remember the exact details of the response but that was the basics. And I still don't know what that had to do with my wish. But, I modified my design tactics and I am now fluent with the system the way it is.

The point I am making is not everything can be done to every ones expectation immediately nor can Thermwood satisfy everyone all the time. But they have (IMHO) been doing everything within their resources to satisfy they majority.

I think in time with this on the wish list it will become available to us because it is a good suggestion. I just think adding something that is so last week to something designed for tomorrow is just a bit backwards. And again my opinion. If the introduction of the 32 hole system does not interfere with hinge and hardware placement (as I asked Jason in this thread), it will work for all who use 32 system designs. But not custom designers like myself and the others. But that's OKAY too.

This software can do exactly what you want, with a lot of work. And that is totally dependent on the designers knowledge with the software. It takes time to learn the tricks and everyone here in this forum will gladly share their ideas (as you have) and everyone has different ones. Just like you. It's just that not all of the ideas (like the one I wished for) are accepted.

As of this post there are 2,588 registered users in this forum, not to mention the users who don't participate here. And, from what I recall there are over 14,000 members total. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. But that's a lot of people to tailor to.

Again this is just an opinion and should not be take as a critical statement against you or any other members.

[DanEpps]

...I am the kind of guy who will rework a library full of cabinets if I see one little thing I can improve on for either quality,function, or ease of assembly...

Developing a functional library of cabinets requires reworking everything when you discover a method that works better for you. If you didn't have this capability you would be stuck with whatever the software designers thought was the best method and have no ability to change it. That is definitely not a good alternative.

Just about anything can be designed in eCabinets if one invests the time to use and thoroughly learn the ins and outs of the software. Most design "issues" can be overcome with a little thought much easier than they can with a bigger hammer.

Rather than thinking "it can't be done", think "how can it be done."

I think the point here should be that no matter what method you use to construct cabinets, you can design them in eCabinets to use that method. Yes, it requires work, but not nearly as much work as pencil, paper and calculator require.

After all, if all cabinets were identical, why would anyone buy them anywhere other than the local home improvement center?

...At a point in my life I thought that I had discovered the ultimite...

I wish I was that young again.

[Jason Susnjara]

Boy, I didn't mean to start a war about this. The reason the system 32 is on our list is because we had nothing but requests for this feature. I think that for some members that do commercial type work this will benefit and the residental it would not. I am not a fan of the system 32 holes that run from top to bottom but there were a lot of members that wanted to see this added. If we offered both ways, this should eliminate this discussion altoghether, hopefully .

Have a great weekend.

[Michael Yeargain]

Absolutely Jason. And thank you for the information.

As always you guys ROCK!

[Glenn Van Reason]

There were 5 monkeys in the cage. The researcher have hung a bunch of bananas on the ceiling and placed a ladder underneath.

One of the monkeys saw the banana and started getting up the ladder to get it. The researcher turned on the fire hose and knocked him down from the ladder, hosing all other monkeys with cold water as well.

After a while, another monkey decided to get the banana. He started getting up the ladder and was knocked off it again. All other monkeys got their share of cold water from the fire hose.

After a number of such unsuccessful attempts and cold showers, the monkeys stopped trying to get the bananas.

Then one monkey was replaced with a new one.

The newcomer saw the bananas, the ladder and figured that he’ll like some.

The researchers didn’t even have to use the firehose. As soon as newcomer put the first feet on the ladder, the four oldtimers knocked him down. After a few unsuccessful attempts the newcomer stopped trying.

Then another oldtimer was replaced. He also went for banana and was knocked down by his four colleagues. After a while he stopped trying.

The experiment continued until the last oldtimer who could remember the firehose was replaced by the new monkey. The researchers even removed the firehose from the room.

Now the latest newcomer saw the bananas and started climbing the ladder. He was promptly knocked off it. Why? Go figure…

The bananas are there. The ladder is there. They want the bananas. None of the monkeys know that they may be sprayed by firehose. There is no firehose! But none will let the others get on the ladder. BECAUSE THIS IS THE WAY THINGS ARE DONE HERE !




Time to think outside the square lol

[DanEpps]

Outstanding Glenn!

That reminds me of a story told bt Stephen R. Covey (7 Habits of Highly Effective People).

A man brought in a large ham for his wife to cook for Christmas. She got the pot out of the cupboard and he began to cut the small end of the ham off.

She asked him why he was doing that and he responded \"I don't know, my mother always did it.\" The wife suggested they ask his mother why she did it and she said it was because her mother always did it.

They went to the grandmother and asked her the same question. She replied \"I had to cut the end off the ham because it was too long for the pot I had at the time.\"

The original reason for doing many things gets lost over time and the task becomes a habit with no one knowing why they do it. This is why one should always look at difficult tasks with the attitude \"If someone else can do it, why can't I?\" instead of \"I can't do that.\"

Good insight Glenn.

[Glenn Van Reason]

Thanks Dan, This topic has got me thinking, I worked for a while at a smaller joinery business and when i got there one thing they use to do was hard fix all their shelfs in cabinets, especially the corner cabinets. I of couse enquired as to why stating that modern enhancements in fixing of cabinets and construction methods make it so that adjustable shelfs provide flexibility of storage space and solid construction.
The boss said, have you ever seen a cabinet you installed in a kicthen with the shelf on anything but the middle pins !! and you know I couldn't lol
Each to his own lol.

[Michael Yeargain]

Seems like someone needs to write these things down

. to remember.

I think it stems back to the spanking we receive when we exit the mothers womb... Why do they do it?

Does anyone remember? Don't tell me it's to make them breath.

\" we did it during my tenure\"

[Gene Davis]

I am sorry, but I am an engineer. Not an anthropologist, so I don't know monkeys. Not a agronomy guy, so I don't know pigs and hams. And only an occasional cabinet maker, so I don't know the reasons why adj shelves never get an adj.

So, please, will someone spell out the meaning of the various parables offered here, and how they relate to Georgi's request that the software be modified to include a button that makes unhanded sides in all-shelf wallcabs and all-shelf basecabs?

[Glenn Van Reason]

No worries Gene, I'll spell it out for ya.
My first parable with the monkeys illustrates that we all at some stage do things that we really don't know why we do them, just because we aways have done them. In this case it may be Georgi's request to have holes a certain way because, \"That's the way we have always done it\" not talking into account advances is construction techniques.
It may also be our reluctance to acknowledge Georgi's request as having any substance because the way we do thing is different and therefore the so called \"Norm\"
This was illustrated by my previous boss giving me his reasons as to why he fixes all his shelfs into position and does not use adjustables. I counted with all the reasons that my teacher gave me as to why we use adjustables only to be shot down in flames by his response.
I guess all this rambling comes down to this......

Whatever way you build is right by you and there will be someway of making that happen in eCabinets, BUT along the way someone just may give you a way to make life eaiser for yourself. If any of us close ourselfs off from learning we do ourselves a disservice.

[Michael Yeargain]

I like the way you used diplomacy there Glenn.

Georgi is not asking anything amis. It is a legitimate request. After all, I make request of lesser importance. We all know there is a solution to this as long as we stay off the ladder (IN OUR WORLD). But there is always one; who (not knowing OUR WORLD ways) will attempt to climb the ladder for the reward. In his world with real banna trees that is the way they do it.

But, sometimes (even us) when we are in a fenced in area with no trees just a ladder the only thing we know how to to do is stay off the ladder, the reward is still there. Some of the older ones still remember why we stay off the ladder or why we do it this way or that way. We all do things according to that which we were taught or have seen. We can do nothing of ourselves except that which we were shown.

A good example is the cabinets and solid surface job I bidded on here recently. The builder (as always) gives an allowance for cabinets and countertops. Always under budget of course. Most builders use their own people, and get a discount price, that's all they know to charge for the countertops. When in reality the discount is because someone is scratching someones back. Not real world prices. Nothing new under the sun right?

The prices the customer was given @ 40 bucks/ft installed, is not anything I would even consider to price a job on. It's just the way I do it. At $40.00 /ft I could run it through the company. But, this is a ladder I will fall off of. Having did all the work to get the reward without collecting. And, if my memory serves me correctly, I am in business to make money. Not friends. Although I will be friendly.

Just some more food for thought.

[Rick Palechuk]

You can have an easy button in the software but someones got to work hard to make it happen. Either the programmers design it into the program or you design your own custom seed cabinets, at varied sizes, with balanced gables. Now as a whole, with all efforts combined, I think the latter would be the path to take. I am a firm believer in goof-proofing your stuff, as the shop manager that's what I do. The route I take thou, is to inform the crew as to why something is the way it is. I don't want someone to blindly shoot something together without knowing why, what or where. If they know exactly what there doing then they feel good about what there doing, they work efficiently, they trouble-shoot. When I detail my panels (hinge plate and adjustable holes) I mark every part with the details they will need to finish the task and assemble the product. The transfer of information must be complete. You might just find it easier to turn the robots into thinking people than to try tricking the robot. JMHO