What is a hip joint?

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Al Navas
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What is a hip joint?

Postby Al Navas » Mon, Dec 10 2007, 12:40PM

I have looked up this joint in Feirer's \"Cabinet and Millwork\", and also in Hylton's Illustrated Cabinetmaking, and cannot find what this joint looks like. I also used Google and came up empty, other than references to it.

I would appreciate if someone could post a photo or image of this joint. Thanks!


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Postby Rick Palechuk » Mon, Dec 10 2007, 3:37PM

It might have something to do with Japanese style joinery Al.

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Postby Jason Susnjara » Mon, Dec 10 2007, 3:42PM

Hi Al,

Try this search term in google.

hip joint - strongest joint in woodworking

It does come up with a few links however no pics. I have emailed one of those to see if they had a pic. I think it is nothing more than a miter joint.
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Postby Paul Ellis » Mon, Dec 10 2007, 3:45PM

Al,

Perhaps you've been consulting the wrong book? It sounds to me like something you might find in the Karma Sutra? :lol:
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Postby Al Navas » Mon, Dec 10 2007, 4:07PM

Rick Palechuk wrote:It might have something to do with Japanese style joinery Al.


Thanks, Rick. I have tried many searches, and nothing...


Jason Susnjara wrote:...Try this search term in google.

hip joint - strongest joint in woodworking

It does come up with a few links however no pics. I have emailed one of those to see if they had a pic. I think it is nothing more than a miter joint.


Thanks for trying, Jason. Like you, I have come up empty-handed. I now wonder if the term IS a (contemporary) substitute for some other joint, as you suggest. Funny enough, it has been proposed by someone posting a comment at TheWoodWhisperer video blog. See Response #14 of the post I linked.

The hip joint is taught by Mark Adams School of Woodworking, as part of one of his seminars. But no photos anywhere :cry: .



Paul Ellis wrote:Al,

Perhaps you've been consulting the wrong book? It sounds to me like something you might find in the Karma Sutra? :lol:


Trust me, Paul, I tried not only the Karma Sutra, but also the Kama Sutra. NO Karma anywhere in the version I read!!! :lol: 8)


Thank you all!!!


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Postby Glenn Van Reason » Mon, Dec 10 2007, 4:08PM

A new hip joint is what I need from years of lifting cabinets !!!!!
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Postby DanEpps » Mon, Dec 10 2007, 4:16PM

Al, I wonder if it isn't something like your 3-way miter in one of your videos. If you think of how a hip roof is constructed, the ends meet the sides in a similar manner.

My searches turned up quite a few little bars (\"hip\" joints) :wink: along with plenty of pictures of the bone that connects your leg to your butt. :lol:

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THIS IS ALL I HAVE FOUND

Postby Keith Beggarly » Mon, Dec 10 2007, 4:17PM

HERE IS A PIC OF WHAT I FOUND.
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hip joint.jpg
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Postby Al Navas » Mon, Dec 10 2007, 4:23PM

DanEpps wrote:Al, I wonder if it isn't something like your 3-way miter in one of your videos. If you think of how a hip roof is constructed, the ends meet the sides in a similar manner.

My searches turned up quite a few little bars ("hip" joints) :wink: along with plenty of pictures of the bone that connects your leg to your butt. :lol:


Dan,
I don't know that I have ever seen a hip roof - but, back in the 60s, "everything" was *pretty hip* in SoCal. :lol: . So, maybe, just maybe, I have seen a hip roof, somewhere.

I don't think it is anything like the 3-way miter, as the reader's response at Marc's video blog addressed connecting all 4 legs of the table at a hip joint. BUT mine is just a guess at this point.


Keith Beggarly wrote:HERE IS A PIC OF WHAT I FOUND.


Keith,

THAT looks more like a butt joint to me!!! Thanks - I needed that, for sure... :lol:

Edit to add: I just got off the phone with the Marc Adams School of Woodworking, requesting a photo and a brief description of the hip joint. I will share whatever I get. As a back-up, I also sent them an e-mail message...On his website, on the video page, he offers a video/DVD on Joinery, which includes the hip joint. Has anyone ever bought this DVD?


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Last edited by Al Navas on Mon, Dec 10 2007, 4:29PM, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby DanEpps » Mon, Dec 10 2007, 4:28PM

I just looked at the video you linked to and I think I understand now.

I think it is when you use criss-crossed stretchers with a keystone in the center. Look at the legs in the table in the video at 2:54. See how the \"stretchers\" come together with the center higher than the ends? If their were a keystone on the center I think this would be a hip joint.

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LINK TO EXAMPLE

Postby Keith Beggarly » Mon, Dec 10 2007, 4:31PM


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Postby Al Navas » Mon, Dec 10 2007, 4:36PM

I saw that image, Dan, and it is not clear how the legs were joined. Reading through the responses, Marc will have several joinery options, including using the new Festool Domino, as he mentions in his own response further down the line.


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Re: LINK TO EXAMPLE

Postby Al Navas » Mon, Dec 10 2007, 4:40PM



Gotcha, Keith!

Are the hip joints the INSET four cuts, with the rabbet around them? I was looking at ONLY the carved out portion of the board - sorry!!! :(

NOW it starts to make sense - it is what Dan refered to as the "keystone". Am I starting to get it???


Edit to add: Quoting the next photo:

"The heavily stressed joints like the seat to the legs are hip joints, a special kind of mortise and tenon. The less stressed joints like the arms are dowel joints. We did all the joinery on the chair "square in negative space" while the boards were not shaped. If you look carefully you'll see the arms drawn out and the dowels drilled into the legs. These are ready to be cut on the bandsaw."


That is it! Thanks, Keith. From now on, I promise to LOOK at the images a little longer, AND also to digest them a little better...


Al

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Re:

Postby DanEpps » Mon, Dec 10 2007, 4:54PM

Al Navas wrote:...but, back in the 60s, "everything" was *pretty hip* in SoCal.


I watched a show on TV last--"1968 with Tom Brokaw" and all the hip places in that show were in northern California (Haight-Asbury) :shock:

That show brought back a lot of memories--good, bad and indifferent.

Anyway, that joint is not exactly what I was referring to but I see it after Keith's explanation. I too was looking at the carver area on the seat instead of the notched areas for the legs. I think the "hip" must come from the tenon area of the notch.


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