Frame flush to inside

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Joe Soto
Guru Member
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Joined: Thu, May 19 2005, 7:50PM
Company Name: Fancyridge Wood Products LLC
Location: Greensburg, Ky

Re: Frame flush to inside

Post by Joe Soto »

I build mostly framed and like the idea of the sides flush with the inside so I could use the router to drill the hardware holes, but how do you guys attach the frame to the case, now I use a full dado but am open to suggestions. How do you handle cases with two drawers above a pair of butt doors? 2 short partitions? What about partitions? Do you double them up?
Thanks, Joe
Gene Davis

Re: Frame flush to inside

Post by Gene Davis »

Doubled partitions were shown here at this forum in another thread, discussing FF cabinetry and flush panels inside to pick up drawerslide and hinge hardware. You'll probably want 1/2" or more of back thickness to pick up the loads and joints the short partitions used for hanging drawers will bring, to the back panel.

Out front, with your panel surface flush to your FF stile edges, it can set up the case for use of biscuits (#10s should do) or the Festool Domino dowels (the 5mm x 30mm might work). That, plus a little glue and clamp time, and you should be good to go.
Steve Dyches
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Location: Beech Island, SC
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Re: Frame flush to inside

Post by Steve Dyches »

Joe,

We use pocket screws and glue OR clamps and glue to attach face frames. Been doing this for at least ten years with no problem.

Our cases are 3/4", backs 1/2" and default FF is 1 1/2"w. The 1 1/2" FF makes it easy to flush partitions to one side and double up or "shim" the other side with 3/4" filler for drawers. When the hinge side of a door opening does not have a flush side or partition we use the rear mounting inset face frame hinge mount.

When I say flush to inside of face frame I really mean index off inside of face frame with a slight inset of something in the neighbor hood of .020 to .0312. If the software has the added feature of flushing to inside of face frame I hope and assume this will have the ability to set an inset value from the inside of the face frame and not just absolutely flush.

Steve
Thanks,

Steve Dyches
http://www.frostkeading.com
Mark Taylor
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Posts: 309
Joined: Sat, Feb 04 2006, 5:13PM
Location: Hilton Head / Bluffton SC

Re: Frame flush to inside

Post by Mark Taylor »

I really don't understand the advantages of this construction...sure I recognize we could use the router to drill hardware holes and installation of the hardware would be a little quicker/simpler(?). But overall this construction seems to use more material and waste valuable space. If the goal is to utilize the router to it's maximum capacities, why go to the trouble of building the face frames - why not just build frameless?

I'm open to new ideas and increased productivity...we build almost solely face frame cabinets and have jigs for installing our hardware pretty efficiently, so I don't see any significant reason to switch to this kind of construction.

Please enlighten me!

Mark
Forrest Chapman
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Location: Anderson SC.
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Re: Frame flush to inside

Post by Forrest Chapman »

Mark,

The advantages go beyond accuracy and speed of placement. The hardware is stronger, more durable and functions smoother if mounted to a substrate instead of on an edge or between 2 points. Most people if not all who order FF these days do so for looks and or perceived quality only. If they really cared about space they would order a frameless cabinet. And the fact is you only lose about 1.5" per cabinet. Customers don't mind losing 4,5, or even 6" to add turned post. If you did it once I doubt you would go back.

Steve,

I also pocket screw the FF's on. I use the inserta hinge and a drawer front adjuster insert so my customers can remove the FF's and fronts with ease and finish them. They glue and screw the frames back on when done.

Forrest
Mark Taylor
Guru Member
Posts: 309
Joined: Sat, Feb 04 2006, 5:13PM
Location: Hilton Head / Bluffton SC

Re: Frame flush to inside

Post by Mark Taylor »

Okay...so partitions get doubled up - and I assume their not fasten to the face frame or if they are how? And what about finished ends...did I read earlier you do a lock mitre joint with the face frame - so you use 3/4 material (?) and what - shim it at the back and fasten it from inside the cabinet with screws?

Mark
Steve Dyches
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Location: Beech Island, SC
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Re: Frame flush to inside

Post by Steve Dyches »

Mark,

The reason I started this was because I wanted to make our most common inset face frame cabinets faster. For us this included being able to flat finish all end panels, face frames etc. and then mount them to the pre-finished case. No masking, no finishing the case. Now with the router we get the bonus of perfect hardware holes. With respects to the end panel I have not tried but I'm curious about the miter joint for mating the FF and end panel. We have always mounted the finished end panel to the case end using screws from the inside. The back side of our face frame stile and our finished end panel's front edge are beveled which absorb the slight misalignment that occurs due to the panel thickness variation. On our higher end pieces we have to mount the FF prior to finishing, rout the FF flush to the end with a flush/v-groove bit and sand perfectly flush. If FFs don't add value to the customer by all means build Euro, it's a great way to build cabinets. But if you want a faster way to build inset FF cabinets this "hybrid" is great.

Steve

PS
All partitions are secured to the FF. If not screws, clamp and glue a few minutes
Thanks,

Steve Dyches
http://www.frostkeading.com
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