door gaps

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matt omeara
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door gaps

Post by matt omeara »

A couple beginner questions about door gaps:

How do you (or can you) create a double door with unequal door widths? Say I have a 26" wide cabinets and I want a double door with the right door at 10" wide and the left door at 16" wide?

Also, on frame-less cabs, how do specify the gap between the door and the case? I typically spec this at 1/8" (about the size of a bumper), but I don't see what parameter controls this.
Paul Ellis
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Re: door gaps

Post by Paul Ellis »

Matt,
Unequal double doors. Here's the steps that I take
1. Add your double doors.(They are now equal in width)
Oh and specify your gap settings
2. For argument sake - your doors are now 13 in each. While still in door/drawer editor, select the right hand one and right click
3. Go to construction settings
4. Change the Open side reveal to 3in
5. Select OK
6. Select the left hand door and right click and go to construction settings
7. Change the open side reveal to -3in (That is negative 3 inches)
8. Click on OK
You should have unequal doors with the right gaps and everything

HTH
Paul Ellis

"If it works, don't fix it"
Gene Davis

Re: door gaps

Post by Gene Davis »

We use Blum hinges in doing frameless cabinetry, and for the 107 degree model most common for us, the "standoff" looks to be about 1mm. The in-out adjustment done by turning the appropriate screw on the clip arm can gain you another 3mm.

But you probably know all that, and are asking about how one does all this within the eCabs program.

I am not a guru user by any means, but have built a substantial library of seed cabs that we cut from, and I've seen no way to modify the "standoff" position of a door with overlays on either carcase sides (frameless) or on face frames. The software was written so that the door geometry has its inside face flush tight to the mating parts.

One good reason for the door to be such is that hardware holes, which for doors can be in both door and adjacent cabinet element, index from an axis considered common to both, that axis defining the junction of the two planes "into" which hardware holes are "bored." Doing door "moves" could upset that cutting geometry.

All that said, if it really bothers you and you need, in your models, to have the doors stood away from panel fronts by some distance, to mimic the reality of what the hinges do, then you'll have to make door-less cabs, then bring in doors to assemblies, and place the doors how you want them.

Seems to me like a lot of work for little, if any, value.

But, hey, what do I know?
Lamar Horton
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Re: door gaps

Post by Lamar Horton »

To get the door to stand off the cabinet face frame, set the door inset to a negative number equal to the distance you want the door to stand off. You will then see the "overlay" boxes change to "gaps". Set the gaps to a negative measurement equal to the amount of overlay you need.
matt omeara
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Re: door gaps

Post by matt omeara »

Thanks for both responses.

With regard to the "standoff" dimension, let me give an example. One of the ways we do scribe is to screw a piece of HW to the side of the cabinet that butts into the wall. This piece of HW is typically 3/4" thick by 3" wide by the height of the cabinet, with the 3" side mating to the cabinet. The 3/4" face will sit out proud from the case by roughly 1/8" (this would be the "standoff" dimension). Then, we lamello our scribe peice to the HW peice so that it's flush with the adjacent doors or drawer fronts. It's nice to be able to send drawings to the shop that show this detail, because we do scribe using several different methods depending on the circumstance. More detail = less questions from the builders.
Gene Davis

Re: door gaps

Post by Gene Davis »

Lamar, Matt and I are looking for a way to do this "door standoff" with doors on frameless cabinets.

Frameless reveals for us, and others do similarly, run like, 0mm bottom, 1.5mm sides, and 3mm at top.

What workaround have you done when setting doors on frameless cabs (with reveals like these) to get the doors to be set out away from the carcase fronts?

I can only get the doors to move into or away from the front plane of the carcase, by setting the door reveals to negative numbers. But that is not what we have in frameless cab design.
Kerry Fullington
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Company Name: Double E Cabinets
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Re: door gaps

Post by Kerry Fullington »

Gene,

Just follow Lamar's instructions. It works the same for frame less.
You have to use negative gap numbers to set your reveals.
Kerry
Kerry Fullington
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Re: door gaps

Post by Kerry Fullington »

Here is an exaggerated example.
Attachments
doors_01.jpg
doors_01.jpg (25.69 KiB) Viewed 9575 times
Glenn Van Reason
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Re: door gaps

Post by Glenn Van Reason »

Gene, it works for frameless as well, use a negative number for your door inset, then for your reveals use the formula (-external carcase material width+your reveal) i.e. we use 16.5mm material with 1.5mm reveals so we would put (-16.5+1.5)=-14mm for the reveals. for no reveal or 0mm use -16.5.
This message made from recycled electrons.
Gene Davis

Re: door gaps

Post by Gene Davis »

Thanks for the prod, Kerry, but I just tried it, and it won't work, at least for me.

Took a frameless cab (this topic is all about frameless), went into door/drawer editor, removed the existing pair of doors, opened up the dialog box for all the construction settings, set top reveal at 3mm, sides at 1.5mm, bottom at 0, center gap at 3mm, then set the door inset value to -3mm. Said OK and closed the box.

Selected the opening, and BOOM, in came a pair of doors, with the 3mm boost off the front of the carcase, but none of the edges were overlaid to the reveals specified. The doors appear to have the 3mm "negative" inset, but zero for overlays, i.e., the "reveals" all the way around are equal to the panel thicknesses of 19.4mm. See the pic attached.

You cannot have both an "overlay" door in frameless, and anything but a zero inset.

Unless you know a workaround I don't.
Gene Davis

Re: door gaps

Post by Gene Davis »

Dang! Forgot to attach. Here's the pic.
Boost the doors.jpg
Boost the doors.jpg (159.18 KiB) Viewed 9545 times
Glenn Van Reason
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Re: door gaps

Post by Glenn Van Reason »

read my response Gene, Why are you putting in 3mm and 1.5mm????? Read the instructions
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Gene Davis

Re: door gaps

Post by Gene Davis »

OK, I reread and see how it works. Sorry to be so obtuse.

As the door is thus moved, so of course are the hardware holes, which may be a hassle for users that want the door and hardware to behave as the manufacturer designs it, because the 37mm plate mount spec puts the door, with adjustments at zero, at a 1mm offset away from carcase front.

I'm sure not gonna go through all my seeds to both boost the doors by a millimeter or two, and change my hardware hole group setback to 36mm or 35mm, just for this. We're happy just cranking out the hinges to adjust our gaps for the bumper thickness we're using.

Not unless I could do it globally.
Big boost.jpg
Big boost.jpg (92.41 KiB) Viewed 9532 times
Glenn Van Reason
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Posts: 459
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Company Name: TBA
Country: AUSTRALIA
Location: ORANGE NSW AUSTRALIA every now and then between trips lol

Re: door gaps

Post by Glenn Van Reason »

Gene I don't know what you mean by the following.

"I'm sure not gonna go through all my seeds to both boost the doors by a millimeter or two, and change my hardware hole group setback to 36mm or 35mm, just for this. We're happy just cranking out the hinges to adjust our gaps for the bumper thickness we're using."

Yes the holes move the more you drag the door away from the carcase, this is exactly as the manufacture designs it, the distance from the rear of the door to the centre if the hinge mount holes is set.. it you want more of a gap between the back of the door and the carcase then the hinge mount holes have to move forward.
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Glenn Warner
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Re: door gaps

Post by Glenn Warner »

Paul Ellis wrote:Matt,
Unequal double doors. Here's the steps that I take
1. Add your double doors.(They are now equal in width)
Oh and specify your gap settings
2. For argument sake - your doors are now 13 in each. While still in door/drawer editor, select the right hand one and right click
3. Go to construction settings
4. Change the Open side reveal to 3in
5. Select OK
6. Select the left hand door and right click and go to construction settings
7. Change the open side reveal to -3in (That is negative 3 inches)
8. Click on OK
You should have unequal doors with the right gaps and everything

HTH
I tried following the above steps and cannot get it to work.
After step 5, both doors are still each 13"
After step 8 both doors are 14 1/2" and the right door overhangs the right side by 3".

I tried several different approaches but the doors always wind up with identical widths.

I used the standard frameless upper with slab doors, zero reveals all around
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