Artcam and Thermwood linking

[Glenn Van Reason]

The biggest thing I have seen with Thermwood is that it really isn't listening to the regions it goes into. I mean it excels very well in the American market with the features it has and the construction methods the are used every day in the States. Unfortunately when it comes to our style of building it has a few limitations, I know that software design comes from the level of user input, but if the software alienates a group by not supporting it's construction methods from the start it is very hard to get a user base to request enhancements.
Do not take this as eCabinet bashing, I was very critical at my first use of this software but after a few users showed me what this thing can do, I have been a convert. I show anyone who will look at what it can do. The hardest part is having to explain, "Yes it can handle how we do things by this comprehensive list of "getarounds" which of course just leads to the comment "Why can;t it just do it instead of having to rely on a getaround.
Ecabinets is a tool in my tool box, just like I have hammers, chisels, drop saws, jigs etc. Some tools are more valuable than others, some need improvements. eCabs falls in the very cool tool category, but in the same way I can't use a chisel without a hammer to get a certain task done, sometimes I rely on other software to bridge the gap.
I think we are all here in this forum for the same thing, to see eCabs get better an excel. I think there has been a lot of misunderstanding of posts, misinterpretations of emotions and just plain untactfullness between all posters.
I mean at the end of the day a great idea is still a great idea no matter how many people want it.

[DanEpps]

Neville, Glenn, et al

You make some very valid points about initial implementation of a feature being considered as "completed" and not being revisited for improvement for quite some time. You also make valid points about eCabinets global presence/local methods.

Many forum users have asked Thermwood to post a list of proposed features several times over the past few years just as many users have posted feature requests.

A couple of years ago I created a "Feature Requests" section on eCabWorld and out of the 500 or so registered users on the site, only 4 items were ever posted in that section. About a week ago Jason suggested that someone start a poll listing needed features so users could vote their importance and help Thermwood to prioritize feature implementation but as of yet, no one has started such a poll.

I think we all agree that builders in Australia, New Zealand, Eurpoe, South Africa and elsewhere produce completely different styles of cabinetry that here in the US. That said, however, how manny have communicated those style needs to Thermwood? I'm talking about very specific design points as most folks in the US see frameless construction as European style. Just because they may look like European cabinetry does not mean they have the same design and construction methods as true European cabinetry (when I say European, I really mean non-North American).

We can't expect Thermwood to understand exactly what is needed if the needs are never communicated to them in a manner that provides very specific design and construction details. That goes not just for non-US users, but for everyone.

Here is what I suggest:

Start a new thread for non-North American users to add their feature requests to. After a couple of weeks, take the features and create a poll so users can vote their preferences for most important. Let the poll run for a couple of weeks and send the results to Thermwood through the feedback feature of eCabinets. Make sure the first thread spells out that it is for listing important features only and not for voting on them or you will get one "feature" post followed by 10 "yeah, me too" posts.

The same approach should be taken by North American users as well.

If no one want to create these threads, feel free to send the feature requests to me and I will create and maintain them. Either way, doing nothing will produce nothing.

In return, I would love to see Thermwood publish a "what's coming" list (without giving away the store of course) to reassure users that their needs are indeed being taken into consideration. This list should also contain current order of implementation for the listed features.

In fairness to Thermwood everyone needs to understand the complexity of developing these new features. I don't know how many people are devoted to eCabinets software development but, with about 200 total employees I can tell you the department can't be that large. In my last corporate I.T. position, we had over 500 software developers and were understaffed by almost 15%! We developed only business software, nothing technical like eCabinets. The design-development-release cycle is not a fast one unless you want programs crashing everywhere.

Lets get those threads started so everyone's needs can be heard.

[Kerry Fullington]

The eCabinets and Thermwood folks have ask us repeatedly to use the Feedback in the software to submit our Features and Improvements Requests as well as for Bug Reports. Using Feedback gives them the documentation that they need and it is automatically sent to the correct people. I would bet that not many of us have done as they ask. We want that instant gratification that we get when we post these requests on the Forum. We talk of Thermwood adding another Forum for us to make requests. They don't need to. We need to do as they ask and use the Feedback in the software. This is the best way to tell the programmers what you want. After sending in your request via Feedback then post it on the forum saying I have submitted these feature requests to Thermwood and what do the rest of us think? Then other members can also make the request via Feedback. Feedback in the software is our Hotline directly to the Powers That Be.

Lets try doing it their way before we try to make them do it ours.

Kerry

[Lee Gernandt]

I'll say what we're all thinking, WE WANT IT ALL!! Seriously, What is the ratio of people using Ecabs with routers verses people who only use it for design and cut list? Am I the only one who doesn't have a router? Other than the workarounds I've encountered, I like it. And if I come up with an idea on something I'd like to see, I use the feed back method in the software. Not that I use it that much. I didn't know the feedback page existed until it was pointed out to me.

Lee

[Kerry Fullington]

Neville,

As for your original post, follow THIS LINK and I would bet that Brent East could answer any questions you have about Cad/Cam Software.

Kerry

[Glenn Van Reason]

Great idea Kerry, I suggested that here and then was reminded that Dan first floated that idea here.
When I first started using this software I asked about the implementation of ladder style kicks (and yes I know there is a get around for this before anyone posts lol) and was told it would never happen, and true to form it hasn't. In a way I do understand this, we are not a big market, we don't have the shop factility here so really us Oz users are not injecting any funds into the development. Now I am not saying that our requests are being put on the bottom of the pack because of this situation ( far from it as I have found Thermwood staff very receptive of comments and suggestions from our neck of the woods) our user base is smaller in comparison to get any big sway in the priority of our enhancements.
There is a fundamental way in which the places I do business here in Australia and the way I have seen users on this forum do business that set apart our specific needs. My methods and needs are part of a small group while the others are part of a larger group. By this alone my needs will be priortised lower every time, UNLESS there is a benefit for the larger group as well.
Now from this awareness I have realised that I have to use more than one tool to get my business done, Ecabinets is a great part of that, with some improvements it can increase the size of the part it plays in my business. I was very excited to see that Thermwood has opened a way for other software to utilise the Thermwood machine. And every day i find ways to pull information into and out of eCabinets into other systems to get things done. Think outside the square and amazing things can be done.

[DanEpps]

You sure pulled up an old post Glenn.

Maybe we should start a new thread for this topic and see what kind of response it gets.