1-sided/2-sided material

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Damon Nabors
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1-sided/2-sided material

Postby Damon Nabors » Sat, Sep 13 2008, 12:24AM

Here is a new problem that I encountered today. I am doing a job out of melamine (1-sided with glue backer) one side and we are going to p-lam the other side (outside/exterior). When I applied the doors, I chose one sided material so that I could p-lam the outside surface of the door. I associated the hole pattern so that the hingehole would be predrilled. When I place the material with melamine side up on the router table (normally the interior of the cabinet) I get a flip-op on the slab doors. Why would I get a flip-op? Now the hinge holes are on the outside of the cabinet. Normally wouldn't be a problem, I could just flip the sheet over so the holes would end up on the correct side, but the other parts that are nested would not be correct. Has anyone else run into this problem?


Damon
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Todd Miller

Re: 1-sided/2-sided material

Postby Todd Miller » Mon, Sep 15 2008, 7:45AM

Damon Nabors wrote:Here is a new problem that I encountered today. I am doing a job out of melamine (1-sided with glue backer) one side and we are going to p-lam the other side (outside/exterior). When I applied the doors, I chose one sided material so that I could p-lam the outside surface of the door. I associated the hole pattern so that the hingehole would be predrilled. When I place the material with melamine side up on the router table (normally the interior of the cabinet) I get a flip-op on the slab doors. Why would I get a flip-op? Now the hinge holes are on the outside of the cabinet. Normally wouldn't be a problem, I could just flip the sheet over so the holes would end up on the correct side, but the other parts that are nested would not be correct. Has anyone else run into this problem?


Damon


When sigle side material is selected the good side is always face up. This is why you have a flip operation for the door.

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Re: 1-sided/2-sided material

Postby Michael S Murray » Mon, Sep 15 2008, 3:21PM

Damon,
I create a material called something like p-lam up and p-lam down and then call your doors as p-lam down, obviously its the same material only yopu flip it for the nest to avoid flip ops. One example is a up-down strecher on a sink base when the strecher has to be p-lam facing the outside, this would be a flip op situation if you used blind dado's, another would be the bottom/deck of a wall cabinet if you were going to have them match the face(I DONT UNLESS SPECIFIED)I actually dotn have to worry about doors as I prefer to drill them on the hinge boring/insertion machine as I have air clamps that hold the door in place then drills and inserts hinge with out moving the door. IF I drill on router, I have to worry about lining up the hole with the hinge and if it is off a bit it is a hassle.
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Damon Nabors
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Re: 1-sided/2-sided material

Postby Damon Nabors » Mon, Sep 15 2008, 4:22PM

Todd Miller wrote:When single side material is selected the good side is always face up. This is why you have a flip operation for the door.


It was my understanding that on one sided material, the good side up was also the interior of the cabinet. So if I understand your reply correctly, the good side is not always the interior.


Michael S Murray wrote:Damon,
I actually don't have to worry about doors as I prefer to drill them on the hinge boring/insertion machine as I have air clamps that hold the door in place then drills and inserts hinge with out moving the door. IF I drill on router, I have to worry about lining up the hole with the hinge and if it is off a bit it is a hassle.


Mike, I have a Blum Minipress machine but I thought since on this job ( shipping as RTA Cabinets un-assembled) it would be easier to cut the holes on slab doors on the router. This job is using the Inserta type hinges, no pressing involved, just insert and flip the lever. I can't pre-insert the hinges because I don't want the parts scratched when flat packing the parts for shipment. If the part was not a flip, wouldn't the hinge holes line up OK, I am asking only because this is the first time we have tried to cut the hardware holes on the router. I made the ASSUMPSTION that the router would be accurate enough. I guess if I understand you correct, it may not be on hinge holes. :?:

Don't missunderstand I am not Bitching or complaining, I am just trying to get this straight in my head so I will know what is going on when I load the parts next time. We cut this job and drove it to Atlanta, Installed and drove back last night. Marithon instillation :D 14 hours driving, 6 hour installing, and 4 hours sleep after getting home. Don't know that I want to do very more of those.

Thanks for the information Todd and Mike, just living and learning as we go :shock:

Damon
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Re: 1-sided/2-sided material

Postby Michael S Murray » Mon, Sep 15 2008, 4:52PM

Damon,yes the router is accurate enough and if your using those inserta hinges your good to go. What I meant was routing the holes on the router and then taking the door to the hinge machine and trying to line up the hinge with the predrilled hole. MIne is on a air ram and if it is not lined up perfect it will break out around the hole as the hinge is inserted and make a mess of things.

As far as the other issue up is inside around here..................That is why I use the up /down material naming, same material, just tells you wich side is up or down for parts that would require a flip op if cut wrong, usually dont have but a few, filter them and then cut from off- fall.

Ya-feel for you on the install, done a job up in Ontario,left fri morn. 10 hr drive, 2 long days of install and then back home by mon. morning, ya I know the math dont work out, just leave out sleep time and you can make it work!!!!
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Damon Nabors
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Re: 1-sided/2-sided material

Postby Damon Nabors » Mon, Sep 15 2008, 5:18PM

Thanks Mike for the clarification, I have the air ram system also. I understand now what you are talking about trying to press the hinge in the predrilled hole. I normally use the screws rather than the dowels. Don't know why, I just have never tried them.

It looks to me that if the up/side is the interior and the hinges go to the interior, that the door would not need a flip op. Also looks like it doesn't make good use of the nesting if we are having to filter out parts and then cut out of offalls and such just to get the correct orientation on the table.

Residential cabinetry has been a breeze, but learning this commercial stuff with one sided, two sided, p-lam up and down, hardware holes and such, it has been a real learning experience. I don't have the luxury of learning as we go with costly material mistakes. I have to pump cabinets out today like a pro and hope for the best with minimal problems. I need to know that I can pull a job off the machine with a predictable turn out and not have to spend a lot of time looking at each individual part and making sure all the holes cut on the right side or not. I need to be able to pull parts, edgeband and ship.

Talking about Edgebanding, How do you guys keep up with which side get different color edgebanding. I have a lot of cabinets that we are cutting that get the face or front side with woodgrain PVC and the top bottom and back with solid color PVC. Not a real problem for me since I can look at the part and I know what is going on, But for my other "Rocket Scientist" employee that helps me, He gets confused trying to figure out up from down, front to back. "Here's your Sign" :joker:

It would be great if on the sticker it would incorporate maybe a number or letter out next to the "edgebanding line" indicating a specific edgebanding that has been assigned to that number or letter. Or is there a color label printer that we could upgrade to that would print the label with a different color line on the edge of the part if a differnent edgebanding was required? Something needs to be done in this area.
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Re: 1-sided/2-sided material

Postby Michael S Murray » Mon, Sep 15 2008, 5:33PM

throw away the loose screws Damon and go straight to the dowels,faster/better for wood and p-lam work,drill the hole, drop the ram and hit the button, your done and the holding power is so much better than a screw, get the hinge plates with the premounted screws also.......Yes, the edgebanding editor has come a long way but still needs some work and identifing the banding is something that has been brought up several times.
Mike Murray

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Re: 1-sided/2-sided material

Postby jerry johnson » Mon, Sep 15 2008, 7:56PM

If you guys cut the hinge holes with the router how do you edgeband the door without the copy wheel on the bander falling in the hole? I have an old bander and I can't band a door with a hinge hole in it for that reason. 8)

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Re: 1-sided/2-sided material

Postby Michael S Murray » Tue, Sep 16 2008, 6:23AM

Ya, another problem with boring hinge holes on the router, been so long since we done it that I forgot about that one. We have a couple sets of plugs we uses to drop in before running through the bander. I beleive its all banders, mine is only a couple years old.
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Re: 1-sided/2-sided material

Postby Glenn Van Reason » Tue, Sep 16 2008, 5:48PM

Hey guys, the place I'm at at the moment has a brand new Holzher which has a special attachment that allows the doors to be edgebanded after having the hinge hole drilled into it. The door has to be placed face up and you can't use the corner rounder on the same side as the hinge holes. I think this can also be retrofitted to older machines......I may be wrong.
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