shop bot

Moderators: Jason Susnjara, Larry Epplin, Clint Buechlein, Scott G Vaal

c thomas reed
New Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed, Apr 08 2009, 11:30AM
Company Name: lotus woodworks

shop bot

Postby c thomas reed » Wed, Apr 08 2009, 2:20PM

I am new to ecabinet systems, I would like to know if it comatable with shopbot.
Thanks

Michael Yeargain
eCabinets Beta Tester
Posts: 1738
Joined: Tue, May 17 2005, 8:33PM
Company Name: Timeless Cabinetry and Mantles
Location: South East
Contact:

Re: shop bot

Postby Michael Yeargain » Wed, Apr 08 2009, 3:43PM

Thomas,

Ecabinets does not produce dxf or Shop Bot usable files. Ecabinets is a proprietary software designed exclusively for Thermwood Routers.

Concerning dxf files eCabinets does allow import of a dxf for some areas of the software.
Windows 7 Pro/10 Pro 64 bit
AMD Phenom 9650 Quad-Core Processor 2.3Ghz 8GRAM 1TB
NVIDIA GeForce GT 220 1GB

Rick Deskins
Thermwood Team
Posts: 854
Joined: Tue, May 17 2005, 12:47PM
Company Name: Thermwood
Country: UNITED STATES
Location: Thermwood

Re: shop bot

Postby Rick Deskins » Wed, Apr 08 2009, 3:44PM

Rick Deskins
eCabinet Systems Programmer
Dell Precision / Xeon E3-1240 / 8GB RAM/ AMD FirePro V4900

User avatar
Ken Susnjara
Thermwood Team
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed, May 18 2005, 7:45AM
Location: Thermwood

Re: shop bot

Postby Ken Susnjara » Wed, Apr 08 2009, 4:24PM

Great timing Thomas. What Michael told you was true this morning but is not correct this afternoon. Today we announced a new link with ShopBot that allows the ShopBot to run output from eCabinet Systems. In fact, our program changed a lot today. We now offer an extensive body of cabinet and furniture libraries and carving files that are all available free. The entire eCabinet Systems web site has changed so if you haven't visited it after lunch, you might want to check it out.

Michael Yeargain
eCabinets Beta Tester
Posts: 1738
Joined: Tue, May 17 2005, 8:33PM
Company Name: Timeless Cabinetry and Mantles
Location: South East
Contact:

Re: shop bot

Postby Michael Yeargain » Wed, Apr 08 2009, 7:56PM

Yea what a great timming on Thermwood...

Not so great timming on me hu?
. . :wall:
Windows 7 Pro/10 Pro 64 bit
AMD Phenom 9650 Quad-Core Processor 2.3Ghz 8GRAM 1TB
NVIDIA GeForce GT 220 1GB

Leo Graywacz
Guru Member
Posts: 618
Joined: Tue, Jan 16 2007, 7:56PM
Company Name: LRG WoodCrafting
Location: Windsor Locks, CT
Contact:

Re: shop bot

Postby Leo Graywacz » Wed, Apr 08 2009, 9:14PM

Can you list any limitations the shop bot may have compared to the Thermwood? I want to go CNC, but my wallet is saying no. I don't always listen to what my wallet says though. :mrgreen:
Dell Precision 7710
Intel Core i7-6820HQ @ 2.70GHz 16.00 GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro M3000M
512 GB PCIe NVMe - M.2 SSD
Win 7 Pro 64-bit

http://lrgwood.com

User avatar
Ken Susnjara
Thermwood Team
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed, May 18 2005, 7:45AM
Location: Thermwood

Re: shop bot

Postby Ken Susnjara » Thu, Apr 09 2009, 7:59AM

The ShopBot can pretty much do everything the Thermwood can do, however it will be slower. There are a couple of limitations today. One is that right now you can’t scale carvings or carve in the nest. Both of these will be addressed and should be available for ShopBot in the next couple of weeks. Anyone who buys a link will get this as a free update. The only other technical limitation concerns Profile Modeling. This is the ability of the Thermwood control to automatically create a modeling program when a profile tool is not available. The problem here concerns licensed software which would dramatically increase the cost of the link so we decided not to include it, since it is not really used all that often. Our goal in this is to use the ShopBot to get smaller shops into CNC which, I virtually guarantee, will help them grow. As they get bigger, we hope they decide to move on to a Thermwood which includes a lot of features that are valuable to higher volume operations. As volume increases even more, the new Code Splitter link allows you at add a CNC panel saw, at which point, if you are careful about cabinet design, you can put out a whole lot of cabinets.

Leo Graywacz
Guru Member
Posts: 618
Joined: Tue, Jan 16 2007, 7:56PM
Company Name: LRG WoodCrafting
Location: Windsor Locks, CT
Contact:

Re: shop bot

Postby Leo Graywacz » Thu, Apr 09 2009, 3:13PM

Thank you Ken :beer:
Dell Precision 7710
Intel Core i7-6820HQ @ 2.70GHz 16.00 GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro M3000M
512 GB PCIe NVMe - M.2 SSD
Win 7 Pro 64-bit

http://lrgwood.com

Michael Kowalczyk
eCabinets Beta Tester
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue, May 10 2005, 11:35AM
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: shop bot

Postby Michael Kowalczyk » Fri, Apr 10 2009, 6:39PM

One other major limitation might be that many of the ShopBot user's do not have an ATC. Since we use at least 3-4 tools all the time to make blind dado cabs how will Bots be able to do this? Manual tool change?
Michael Kowalczyk, GM

HP-Elite Quad Core Q6700-4 MB ram, Nvidia GeForce 512 MB Dual HP 22" flat panels, Windows 7 ultimate 64bit SP1

Roger Kirkpatrick
Senior Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri, Jul 08 2005, 2:25PM
Company Name: The WoodCrafting Company
Location: Hesperia, California

Re: shop bot

Postby Roger Kirkpatrick » Sat, Apr 11 2009, 1:13AM

Manual bit changes are not an option. Too time consuming re-zeroing.
Many ShopBot owners that use the machine to cut cabinets have the machine set up with more than 1 tool head.
My machine has a second Z I use for drilling.
Now I drill with 1 head and cut with the other (main Z). Now I will need to go from a .375 bit to a .25 bit just because of the back dados.
I now rabbit for the backs.
But the entire cutting can be done with a .25 bit. Another minute or 2 per sheet will not matter.
I don't think the Link program addresses a second tool head.
The WoodCrafter

Gary Campbell
Guru Member
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat, Apr 04 2009, 6:27PM
Company Name: ShopBot Tools Inc
Country: UNITED STATES
Location: Durham NC

Re: shop bot

Postby Gary Campbell » Sat, Apr 11 2009, 9:04AM

Roger...
I believe that they are working on the toolchanger issue. I have spoken with the SB Techs on this issue, as I have 2 heads and 2 drills to get working. SB has a toolchanger that should be out in the near future, and there will be a provision for those with single heads that need to change a bit for multi tool machining, to do so. No matter what the situation, they will be handled by a pause in machining and a CustomCut file tailored to meet the individual users need.

eCabinets is tailored to the proffessional user, and many of the SB users that cut for a living have some muliple head arrangement. SB is working to make sure that those users that want to add eCabinets and the SB Link to their machine can take full advantage of their existing equipment.
Gary Campbell
ShopBot Tools Production Support

ShopBot (eCabinets) Link Training & Support

Kenneth Rychlik
Senior Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Thu, May 04 2006, 11:09AM
Location: Southwest Houston
Contact:

Re: shop bot

Postby Kenneth Rychlik » Sat, Apr 11 2009, 11:06AM

Michael, I feel bad for you. Part of your appeal to purchase the thermwood router was for other ecainet users to use YOU for their cutting needs. I spoke with you a few times about it, but decided to buy the bot instead. It wouldn't have made a difference with me, but you may loose some of your accounts if those folks buy bots now.

The 1/4 inch back dado is still an issue with a 1/4 inch bit, as most of the plywood is 5.2mm. It makes for a sloppy fit, unless you go with mdf or mel but I just prefer veneer core ply.

I am running everything on a 1/4 inch bit. Just change up the construction style a bit and it's not a big deal. I go with back rabbets for the 5.2mm back instead of a dado. Also 1/4 inch shelf pins are readily available to keep from changing to the 5mm bit. It takes longer to run a sheet, but it is making parts while I do something else, so it's not a big deal for me. Down spiral bits plunge good, but normal straight bits put to much pressure on the Z motor of the bot and it looses it's place if you push to fast with it.

The speed of the bot and the issue of a small one man show like me, getting the panels on the machine without scratching are some of the limitations I see. I had been using a panel saw to bust down the sheets before going to the talbe saws to make it easy on this old man to make it all day without getting tired, even before the cnc. So far I have still been doing that. I know it takes me a little longer this way, but I cross cut the sheet on the vertical panel saw first. I only toss a half sheet (or less) on the end of the machine at a time.

There are folks that have built vacuum lifts for their sheets, but I'm not there yet. You can't put a full sheet straight down onto my 4x8 machine. The y carriage is in the way. It has to be put on two thirds of the bed and then slid under the y car.

Happy Easter Everyone.

Kenneth

Joe Dusel
eCabinets Beta Tester
Posts: 1117
Joined: Tue, May 17 2005, 9:40PM
Location: Vista, CA, U.S.A.
Contact:

Re: shop bot

Postby Joe Dusel » Sat, Apr 11 2009, 2:22PM

I was wondering about the hole size issues with the ShopBots. I would personally never consider 1/4" for my shelf holes because I need 5mm for all of the hardware I use anyway, like hinge mounts and slides. So, unless you buy a second Z head you have to spend a bunch of time changing bits?

So let's see, the base price on a PRS Alfa (4' x 8' ) is $17,095.00, then for Pro use I would need 2 spindles at about $6590 ($3,295.00 or so each), a second Z axis at $2,895.00, the new eCabs/ShopBot link $1300 and a cheap computer with a printer for around $700. This would come in at around $28,580. Is this right?

I can see how this is eCabs/ShopBot interface is a great deal for anyone who already has a ShopBot, but I think for professional use it might be better to look at the Thermwood Cabinetshop 41 machine. I just wish they made them with a single phase setup, or at least a 230 V 3 phase that didn't require the step-up transformers and such. For small shops without 460V 3 phase power this has got to be a pain in the butski. I wonder if Thermwood might also offer a slightly lower power spindle (like 5 hp) that might allow using 230 V 3 phase.

Joe
CFT411 http://www.cft411.com
Intel i7 920 @ 2.67GHz, 6 GB RAM, Windows 7 64 bit, NVIDIA Geforce GT220 (1GB)

Gary Campbell
Guru Member
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat, Apr 04 2009, 6:27PM
Company Name: ShopBot Tools Inc
Country: UNITED STATES
Location: Durham NC

Re: shop bot

Postby Gary Campbell » Sat, Apr 11 2009, 2:58PM

Joe...
I own a PRSalpha with the second z and 2 drills, and yes, I can surely recommend this to you, should you be able to swing it. Having owned a CNC machine for a year and a half, I can tell you that it took us about 6 months to recover the costs of the machine by 1) increase is production 2)added capabilities 3)reduced payroll by 1 person.

To restate, this means you can do more, do it faster, do it cheaper and increase both the types of jobs and your quality.

Should you feel that you would look in the SB direction for budget reasons, then you could design your product so that all your drilling and narrow cutting is done using a 5mm compression bit and then do a one minute manual toolchange (and rezero) and finish cutting with a 3/8 MC. That would allow you to use a single spindle. I do not recommend use of a router for non hopbby use.
Gary Campbell
ShopBot Tools Production Support

ShopBot (eCabinets) Link Training & Support

Roger Kirkpatrick
Senior Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri, Jul 08 2005, 2:25PM
Company Name: The WoodCrafting Company
Location: Hesperia, California

Re: shop bot

Postby Roger Kirkpatrick » Sat, Apr 11 2009, 4:26PM

Joe,
Something you forgot that I think is required in a production application is vacuum hold down.
A blower or a vacuum pump will set up back $6000 to $8000.
You don't need a second Z, a drill attachment works for that. One spindle and a drill attachment will do all the work.
You will still be over $30K.

But you still only have a ShopBot, no comparison to a Thermwood even the $65K model.
The WoodCrafter


Return to “eCabinet Systems Software”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests