shop bot

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c thomas reed
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shop bot

Post by c thomas reed »

I am new to ecabinet systems, I would like to know if it comatable with shopbot.
Thanks
Michael Yeargain
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Re: shop bot

Post by Michael Yeargain »

Thomas,

Ecabinets does not produce dxf or Shop Bot usable files. Ecabinets is a proprietary software designed exclusively for Thermwood Routers.

Concerning dxf files eCabinets does allow import of a dxf for some areas of the software.
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Re: shop bot

Post by Rick Deskins »

Rick Deskins
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Ken Susnjara
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Re: shop bot

Post by Ken Susnjara »

Great timing Thomas. What Michael told you was true this morning but is not correct this afternoon. Today we announced a new link with ShopBot that allows the ShopBot to run output from eCabinet Systems. In fact, our program changed a lot today. We now offer an extensive body of cabinet and furniture libraries and carving files that are all available free. The entire eCabinet Systems web site has changed so if you haven't visited it after lunch, you might want to check it out.
Michael Yeargain
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Re: shop bot

Post by Michael Yeargain »

Yea what a great timming on Thermwood...

Not so great timming on me hu?
. . :wall:
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Leo Graywacz
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Re: shop bot

Post by Leo Graywacz »

Can you list any limitations the shop bot may have compared to the Thermwood? I want to go CNC, but my wallet is saying no. I don't always listen to what my wallet says though. :mrgreen:
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Ken Susnjara
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Re: shop bot

Post by Ken Susnjara »

The ShopBot can pretty much do everything the Thermwood can do, however it will be slower. There are a couple of limitations today. One is that right now you can’t scale carvings or carve in the nest. Both of these will be addressed and should be available for ShopBot in the next couple of weeks. Anyone who buys a link will get this as a free update. The only other technical limitation concerns Profile Modeling. This is the ability of the Thermwood control to automatically create a modeling program when a profile tool is not available. The problem here concerns licensed software which would dramatically increase the cost of the link so we decided not to include it, since it is not really used all that often. Our goal in this is to use the ShopBot to get smaller shops into CNC which, I virtually guarantee, will help them grow. As they get bigger, we hope they decide to move on to a Thermwood which includes a lot of features that are valuable to higher volume operations. As volume increases even more, the new Code Splitter link allows you at add a CNC panel saw, at which point, if you are careful about cabinet design, you can put out a whole lot of cabinets.
Leo Graywacz
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Re: shop bot

Post by Leo Graywacz »

Thank you Ken :beer:
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Michael Kowalczyk
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Re: shop bot

Post by Michael Kowalczyk »

One other major limitation might be that many of the ShopBot user's do not have an ATC. Since we use at least 3-4 tools all the time to make blind dado cabs how will Bots be able to do this? Manual tool change?
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Roger Kirkpatrick
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Re: shop bot

Post by Roger Kirkpatrick »

Manual bit changes are not an option. Too time consuming re-zeroing.
Many ShopBot owners that use the machine to cut cabinets have the machine set up with more than 1 tool head.
My machine has a second Z I use for drilling.
Now I drill with 1 head and cut with the other (main Z). Now I will need to go from a .375 bit to a .25 bit just because of the back dados.
I now rabbit for the backs.
But the entire cutting can be done with a .25 bit. Another minute or 2 per sheet will not matter.
I don't think the Link program addresses a second tool head.
The WoodCrafter
Gary Campbell
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Re: shop bot

Post by Gary Campbell »

Roger...
I believe that they are working on the toolchanger issue. I have spoken with the SB Techs on this issue, as I have 2 heads and 2 drills to get working. SB has a toolchanger that should be out in the near future, and there will be a provision for those with single heads that need to change a bit for multi tool machining, to do so. No matter what the situation, they will be handled by a pause in machining and a CustomCut file tailored to meet the individual users need.

eCabinets is tailored to the proffessional user, and many of the SB users that cut for a living have some muliple head arrangement. SB is working to make sure that those users that want to add eCabinets and the SB Link to their machine can take full advantage of their existing equipment.
Gary Campbell
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Kenneth Rychlik
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Re: shop bot

Post by Kenneth Rychlik »

Michael, I feel bad for you. Part of your appeal to purchase the thermwood router was for other ecainet users to use YOU for their cutting needs. I spoke with you a few times about it, but decided to buy the bot instead. It wouldn't have made a difference with me, but you may loose some of your accounts if those folks buy bots now.

The 1/4 inch back dado is still an issue with a 1/4 inch bit, as most of the plywood is 5.2mm. It makes for a sloppy fit, unless you go with mdf or mel but I just prefer veneer core ply.

I am running everything on a 1/4 inch bit. Just change up the construction style a bit and it's not a big deal. I go with back rabbets for the 5.2mm back instead of a dado. Also 1/4 inch shelf pins are readily available to keep from changing to the 5mm bit. It takes longer to run a sheet, but it is making parts while I do something else, so it's not a big deal for me. Down spiral bits plunge good, but normal straight bits put to much pressure on the Z motor of the bot and it looses it's place if you push to fast with it.

The speed of the bot and the issue of a small one man show like me, getting the panels on the machine without scratching are some of the limitations I see. I had been using a panel saw to bust down the sheets before going to the talbe saws to make it easy on this old man to make it all day without getting tired, even before the cnc. So far I have still been doing that. I know it takes me a little longer this way, but I cross cut the sheet on the vertical panel saw first. I only toss a half sheet (or less) on the end of the machine at a time.

There are folks that have built vacuum lifts for their sheets, but I'm not there yet. You can't put a full sheet straight down onto my 4x8 machine. The y carriage is in the way. It has to be put on two thirds of the bed and then slid under the y car.

Happy Easter Everyone.

Kenneth
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Re: shop bot

Post by Joe Dusel »

I was wondering about the hole size issues with the ShopBots. I would personally never consider 1/4" for my shelf holes because I need 5mm for all of the hardware I use anyway, like hinge mounts and slides. So, unless you buy a second Z head you have to spend a bunch of time changing bits?

So let's see, the base price on a PRS Alfa (4' x 8' ) is $17,095.00, then for Pro use I would need 2 spindles at about $6590 ($3,295.00 or so each), a second Z axis at $2,895.00, the new eCabs/ShopBot link $1300 and a cheap computer with a printer for around $700. This would come in at around $28,580. Is this right?

I can see how this is eCabs/ShopBot interface is a great deal for anyone who already has a ShopBot, but I think for professional use it might be better to look at the Thermwood Cabinetshop 41 machine. I just wish they made them with a single phase setup, or at least a 230 V 3 phase that didn't require the step-up transformers and such. For small shops without 460V 3 phase power this has got to be a pain in the butski. I wonder if Thermwood might also offer a slightly lower power spindle (like 5 hp) that might allow using 230 V 3 phase.

Joe
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Gary Campbell
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Re: shop bot

Post by Gary Campbell »

Joe...
I own a PRSalpha with the second z and 2 drills, and yes, I can surely recommend this to you, should you be able to swing it. Having owned a CNC machine for a year and a half, I can tell you that it took us about 6 months to recover the costs of the machine by 1) increase is production 2)added capabilities 3)reduced payroll by 1 person.

To restate, this means you can do more, do it faster, do it cheaper and increase both the types of jobs and your quality.

Should you feel that you would look in the SB direction for budget reasons, then you could design your product so that all your drilling and narrow cutting is done using a 5mm compression bit and then do a one minute manual toolchange (and rezero) and finish cutting with a 3/8 MC. That would allow you to use a single spindle. I do not recommend use of a router for non hopbby use.
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Roger Kirkpatrick
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Re: shop bot

Post by Roger Kirkpatrick »

Joe,
Something you forgot that I think is required in a production application is vacuum hold down.
A blower or a vacuum pump will set up back $6000 to $8000.
You don't need a second Z, a drill attachment works for that. One spindle and a drill attachment will do all the work.
You will still be over $30K.

But you still only have a ShopBot, no comparison to a Thermwood even the $65K model.
The WoodCrafter
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