My idea of a average kitchen

[Neville Bastian]

Sorry guys. It was a silly request as we all have different idea's of what is a average kitchen depending on our locality. I have a few screenshots of what I consider is a approx $7000 kitchen so If I could get back some feedback on how long Ecabinets takes to achieve this result I can deceide when to start my changeover.
Thanks for your time

Regards Neville

[Kerry Fullington]

Neville,
I thought it would be a good exercise to draw your kitchen. I have about 2 hours drawing time and 1/2 hour to get the images.

This went fast because I was just copying the work of someone else. I didn't have to think. I also just used all my defaults, I didn't add or change much. I paid no attention to details such as cab allignment window placement etc. I also just guessed at some things. Cabinet sizes are just close. All this makes things go faster. I would have to check a number of things before building this job.

My average time drawing for a job this size would be 4 to 6 hours. Part of this is because the style I build. I would have raised panels on all Island and penninsula sides as well as post corners, feet, etc. There would also be at least four different moldings to place on the cabinets. All of this takes time to draw. Then there are the details... profiling cabinet top edges, display objects, etc.
I have many jobs that I get 10 to 12 hours invested, and a couple that have gone to 30 to 40 hours. (usually because many design changes on whole house jobs.)

You would have no problem at all designing two kitchens a day if you don't go crazy with the designs and detail. If you use modular cabinets then it would be a piece of cake.
Kerry

[Jean G Voyer]

Kerry,

You are not a one man shop, are you?

Jean-G

[Kerry Fullington]

Yes Jean,
I work alone ( I don't play well with other children).
Kerry

[Philip Shantz]

OK, Kerry
You get the job of \"main eCabinets spokesperson of the year!\" (If that doesn't convince people to switch nothing will) I vote that you receive 20% of the selling price of every single eCabinet program installed..!

And you might even get something -- the latest ad I've seen for eCabs has the following copy:
\"The software is still free, however, we realize that many larger companies believe you must pay big bucks for really good software. If you think this, feel free to send us a check (since you're used to paying a lot for software, make it a big check).
For the rest of you, sign up for a free copy on our web site.\"

Nice images, I'm convinced that most of the jobs I've gotten in the last couple years have been nailed down by the impressive presentations I've made with eCab images. (Actually, many customers have told me exactly that; and until EVERY cabinet software has the capability for awesome photo-realistic renderings with fantastic lights and shadows -- we will have the edge! -- And by then, of course, eCabinets will have holographic 3 dimensional kitchen projections that we will be able to play on a client's coffee table)
Philip

[Jeremy Schiffer]

Neville,

For a kitchen such as that, my design time would be between 1-2 hours. Now that is just for accurate cabinet placement and cutlist purposes. If the customer wants a pretty rendering of it, then the additional details can easily double the amount of design time. Most of my work is for builders who already know the quality and look of my product, so 99% of the time I don't bother with the details such as countertops, sinks, appliances, etc., so the design is simply to get an accurate cutlist. For an individual \"off the street\", I would add all the gingerbread and charge a design fee.

And Kerry, that's damn impressive for a \"throw together\" design!

[Jean G Voyer]

Kerry,

My next question would be 'How much time do you spend with your family?' but you don't have to answer that one.
I understand what you mean and I work alone to. But unfortunately I feel I don't have that kind of time to spend in designing.
E-cabinet still take me way too long to put out a design but I guess giving time I will get better at it.

Good day.

Jean-G.

[Neville Bastian]

Well Kerry your response does make my drawing look rather sick.
It certainly does the part of the work in selling your design to the client.
Would it be possible to also post the working drawings for the staff.
I normally give them a floor plan, front elevations and some perspectives which in my program is a line drawing that easily photocopies. Also I have a counter top plan for the guy who does the benchtops. Sorry to ask this of you but getting the readable plans to the guys is mision critical.
By the way the time for me to draw and print what I supplied would have been about an hour. It would have been more if I wanted light effects and applied some accessories around so I am impressed with your output.

Regards Nev

[Kerry Fullington]

Neville,
Now you will see how I \"fudged\" things drawing this job. (like pushing a cabinet into the wall)
Here is a typical elevation.

Dimensions are added manually which is sometimes a bother, but it is also good in a lot of ways. You can place only the dimensions you need, making it more readable, and you can get any dimension you want, including angular. (not just the dimensions the software company thinks you need).
I rarely use these line drawings since I am the one that measures, builds and installs the job.
The countertops would have to be dimensioned manually also.
Kerry

[Michael Yeargain]

Neville,

As Philip mentioned in his post about area and the cost associated with it, I'd like to add my 2 cents.

Here in The lower end of the world, SC. to be a little more presice. It is my opinion that kitchen set would go for about 11-13 K. Depending on a number of things, such as pullouts, lazy suzans etc.

Just my 2 cents.

Mike

[Kerry Fullington]

Michael,
That is interesting, as drawn, my price was around $7500 installed, in oak. No countertops, appliances finishing, etc. I live in the wrong part of the country. On another site, someone placed a link that you could compare cost of living in different parts of the country. It sould be interesting to see how that pans out with what we charge for cabinets. I have friends in San Diego that have suggested I move, but according to that site I would have to make almost twice the yearly income to keep the same standard of living. I would bet I could charge more for cabinets there.
Well so much for that Idea, I found the site, and the cost of living in Aiken is less than my area. No wonder I can't afford new equipment.
Kerry

[Philip Shantz]

Out of the pile of Hanley-Wood trade magazines that seem to appear in the mailbox every month there actually are a couple of them I occasionally read; one is Cabinetmaker.

One of the nice things Cabinetmaker does every fall is an annual Price Comparison survey. It's setup so that they have a downloadable set of plans & specifications for various projects (A Kitchen, a library built-in, a bedroom built-in, and a home theater) and then ask shops to submit what their bid would be for that job. Whether or not your shop is chosen to participate and is written up in the subsequent follow-up article, it's still interesting to do the bidding and see how you compare to other shops across the country.

For these of you who would like to see how this works, I have attached a couple of zipped pdf files to this post: one is the \"bid package\" for the 2004 survey and the second one is the results. It's an eye opener -- for example; for exactly the same kitchen job, the low bid was $9646.00 (California) and the high was $38,580.00 (Maryland). It's a pretty graphic demonstration of how the perception, definition, and execution of a \"custom\" kitchen is pretty well all over the board.

The \"job\" for the 2005 survey will be posted later in the summer at http://www.cabinetmakeronline.com/
Philip

Note: I cannot get the \"bid package\" to upload -- but if you go to the above link and click on Pricing Survey you can find it there

[Kerry Fullington]

Philip,
Here are a couple of my drawings for the 2004 Survey.




Kerry

[Philip Shantz]

Well I'll be hornswaggled! It's the Maple Kitchen!

(You must be bidder # 19 from Texas --the ONLY one using eCabinets...)

[Michael Yeargain]

What a great place we live, Texas included

It is very interesting to see the price differences from the various parts of the planet.

Just as curious, what are the prices compared to say \"the land Down Under\" or even up in the land up yonder from the states.

Another interest to me is the mark up.

What are the mark ups compaired to others who use the mark up section in eCabinets.

Chow