XP Series from Vortex

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JohnLashuay
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XP Series from Vortex

Postby JohnLashuay » Thu, Jun 16 2011, 8:24AM

Has anyone purchased the new "extreme performance compression spiral" tools from Vortex and used them? They say that the life is supposed to be double if not triple the life of a comparable Vortex (non XP) bit.

Any insight on this?
-John
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Thermwood CS 43

Forrest Chapman
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Re: XP Series from Vortex

Postby Forrest Chapman » Thu, Jun 16 2011, 9:10AM

Hi John,

I just purchased a few for HPL on PB and was highly impressed with the tool life and cut quality. I think I paid about $60 each for 3/8" unmortised. I cut typical cabinet parts and cut around 70 sheets before I started noticing a decline in the edge quality. It didn't chip it just started slightly raising the edge. I would highly recommend them over diamond which I tried.

Forrest

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Re: XP Series from Vortex

Postby JohnLashuay » Thu, Jun 16 2011, 9:23AM

Thanks Forrest for the input! Do you keep track of the hours that you run these bits for? If so, what was the change?
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Gary Campbell
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Re: XP Series from Vortex

Postby Gary Campbell » Thu, Jun 16 2011, 1:41PM

John...
I also have tried them. My experience is very similar to that of Forrest. Previous "econo" bits would start to chip after 10-12 sheets of Melamine. Only slightly better results with a DLC coated bit. My first XP cut a staple that nicked both flutes (in the 1st 2' of profile)and then 52 sheets before rolling the edge. I cut melamine @ 400ipm.

Higher bit cost than I previously had, but lower per sheet bit cost. My guess is that they are C6 carbide, a grade up from the norm.
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Re: XP Series from Vortex

Postby Forrest Chapman » Thu, Jun 16 2011, 3:15PM

If you talk to the guys at vortex they will tell it doesn't have as much to do with the carbide quality but more to do with the design. I only got them for HPL work but use a high quality carbide bit from carolina specialty tools for melamine and pay about $40.00 for a 3/8" compression. I routinely get around 100 sheets with that tool and had 1 job that I cut 198 sheets of 3/4" melamine with a single tool. I turn 18k rpm at 700 ipm. The key is cutting as fast as possible without losing the edge quality. This keeps the tool cool extending the life.

Forrest

JohnLashuay
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Re: XP Series from Vortex

Postby JohnLashuay » Thu, Jun 16 2011, 3:38PM

Thanks guys for the info! We'll try it out and see how it goes. I spoke with Vortex and they told me that the change in design was the main reason for the longer life. I trust that with this we can get our per sheet bit cost down which would be nice.

Thanks again!
-John
Rylex Custom Cabinetry & Closets
http://www.rylexonline.com
Thermwood CS 43

Gary Campbell
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Re: XP Series from Vortex

Postby Gary Campbell » Thu, Jun 16 2011, 8:25PM

Forrest...
I only wish I could cut at those speeds. I am going to try and lower my rpm from 13.5K to gain some chipload. My next job will NOT have any staples in the edges to rip up the bit. Hopefully I will get a better test.

I surely dont have a way to compare either the tooling angles or carbide grade, but either way, they are a good tool.
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David Poulin
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Re: XP Series from Vortex

Postby David Poulin » Wed, Jun 22 2011, 12:13PM

The topic of what bit to use and how long they last has been addressed several time, and I'm always wondering why the answer are alway given in a number of sheets. My 70 sheets can have twice the amount of cutting than someone else 70 sheets, therefore this is not an accurate baseline.

My controller, and assuming most of yours tell the actual cut time of a particular bit, and this is what I base my findings on.

As for my numbers, We've had this machine for a little over a year now, and using mainly the same outline tool type.

I use a 1/2 compression bit with a flute lenght of 7/8, Our primary material is 5/8 melamine, and mdf.
When I setup new tool, i reset my life on tool at 5 hours. I generally start to get rolling edges at about 3 hour use, and change tool at maybe 4 hours. I run at 18000 and 600ipm. this in terms of sheets is Il'l say 30 sheets, but that figure can be way off cause again, some sheets cut a minute, and some for 15.

So my question is, how many hours are you getting out of your tool, not how many sheets.....70 sheets is a lot of sheets, wish I could get that. and trust me, i have played with speed setting.

Thanks
Dave

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Re: XP Series from Vortex

Postby Forrest Chapman » Wed, Jun 22 2011, 1:10PM

I think most of us think in terms of sheets because we do similar work and cabinets for the most part are the same. So I cut at about 6 sheets an hour on average. Usually a bit will last a couple days. One other thing I noticed yesterday is that after cutting around 30 sheets of 2s HPL I cut about 20 sheets of melamine with the same bit with perfect edges. Do that with any other bit and see what you get. With a 1/2" tool I would suggest 15.5rpm at 600ipm. I believe the XP bit would cut 2 to 300 sheets of melamine no problem.

Forrest

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Re: XP Series from Vortex

Postby JohnLashuay » Thu, Jun 23 2011, 7:39AM

Thanks Forrest & Gary for posting your experiences with the XP bits. We tend to rely more on the hours of run time, like David, because from sheet to sheet the run time can vary drastically. Cutting closet components and drawer boxes really gives a variety of sizes.

Forrest Chapman wrote:I believe the XP bit would cut 2 to 300 sheets of melamine no problem.


This would be an amazing increase over what we do now. I purchased one to try out and we'll see what kind of production we get.

Thanks everyone for your posts!

-John
Rylex Custom Cabinetry & Closets
http://www.rylexonline.com
Thermwood CS 43


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