eCabs Co-op prices...

Joe Dusel · Post by **Joe Dusel** » Sun, Sep 16 2007, 4:15PM

First off, I'm a big fan of this software and I really want this venture to be a huge success for Thermwood and all of us, but I think that the prices for most of what we can get through the software and the web store are way out of line with what most of us pay to our local vendors.

For example, there was a recent discussion of the Hafele finishing racks on this forum. Here's an example of why it's hard for many of us to buy through the software. Hafele has this finishing rack, the HR2. The regular price is $229, when it's on sale it's $189. eCabs price? $353...

For things like the Blum Tandem slides with Blumotion there can be as much as a $10/slide difference between the eCabs price and the price we pay our local suppliers. To give you an idea, I have a flier from E.B.Bradley on my desk, and the prices for the BL-562H5330B slides are $22.80 for quantities of 18. eCabs price? $32.89. For a typical kitchen with about 30 drawers this adds up to an extra $300 plus shipping for the drawer slides alone. The difference in the eCabs prices for all of the hardware in a kitchen including lazy susans and pantry units could easily add $500 (or more) to the cost. This could make the difference in whether or not we get the job, especially with the market the way it is.

In the early days of this co-op the prices for the things through the software were professional prices. Now it seems that most of the items are priced at retail. I would really like to buy all of my hardware through the system, especially since I like the convenience of ordering with a click of the mouse, but I'm afraid that I would price myself out of the market competing against others who are buying their materials at wholesale.

Joe

David Norton · Post by **David Norton** » Sun, Sep 16 2007, 4:32PM

Thx for saying ,what I have thought for a long time Joe. I'm just a very small fish in the pond. If I bought thru the Co-op I would either not have much profit, or not get the job.

Most of my work involves getting the client pretty pictures to sell the job. Once in a while we take on the commission to build a piece. I have to compete with shops that have better resources than we do. Every dollars counts!

JMHO!

Post by **Jason Susnjara** » Mon, Sep 17 2007, 9:24AM

Hi Joe and David,

The same argument goes for us. If we lowered our prices to where we were competitive with your vendors then we will have to charge for the software that you get for Free. We don't make members purchase through the software thinking that since you are getting free software that members will purchase. We try to get the best prices possible for our members but some items have to go through distributors in which the prices will be a little bit more. Your local vendors probably drive to your facility and drop the products off. We can't compete with that. But with all that we have put into the software as far as products are concerned, we probably have a bigger offering than what your local vendor can supply with the ease of purchasing over the web. Thank you for your suggestion as we always try to get the best price.

thanks,

Peter Walsh · Post by **Peter Walsh** » Mon, Sep 17 2007, 3:55PM

I have found the costing similar to what others have found.

However, I always manage to find something that I can price into the job to buy from T'Wood. In my case it is usually Blum hinges, hardware, and wood trim. I am going to take a look at the new door providers on the next job but admittedly, I just can't see anyone beating Cal Door for perfection and excellent, mar-less shipping. I sure wish they would sign up with eCab.

In my case, if there is a job cost difference, it is insignificant to the overall job cost and I feel good about T'wood making something on my use of the software. The cost difference has never cost me a job, and as a small shop, I probably could not afford to buy the software were it to be charged for.

Buy something, even if it is a small order.

My two cents (will be added to the next job cost)

Greg Smith · Post by **Greg Smith** » Tue, Sep 18 2007, 7:20AM

While we are on this subject, how are the Canadian orders handled. I know the Store will show in Canadian dollars, its the shipping that concerns me. Is everything shipped from the U.S. or from Canadian warehouses. I am afraid that shipping, brokerage and customs charges will add way too much to the costs. Has any one in Canada tried and order yet?

Joe Dusel · Post by **Joe Dusel** » Tue, Sep 18 2007, 10:11AM

Peter,

That is basically the same thing I do. I order stuff like boring bits, wood products, screws and various Hafele stuff. If the co-op prices were a bit more reasonable, maybe setup through some of our \"local\" vendors like Louis & Co, E.B.Bradley or some of the other large national multi-location vendors, we could order everything through the eCabs co-op. I think that the vendors may be ready to come on board with eCabs at this point. In one day alone I had reps in my shop from Hafele, Louis and MacMurray-Pacific.

I think that the key with these local vendors for good prices is of course to have different prices based on the quantity ordered. And I think we could actually get setup for free local next day delivery right through the eCabs co-op. Believe me, these local/regional vendors do want the business. I think that the housing slump is affecting them as well.

I don't think many of us would have problems with paying a bit extra for the items we need, but they are certainly not going to pay 50% more for these things.

I beleive this is probably something that many of our members would agree with, but I don't think that many people would actually post it for fear of being slapped down.

Joe

Post by **Jason Susnjara** » Tue, Sep 18 2007, 11:07AM

Joe,

\"And I think we could actually get setup for free local next day delivery right through the eCabs co-op.\"

That sounds great but who is going to pay for the free shipping? I would love to have free shipping but then the prices will raise to compensate.

I am not trying to slap you down or any other member. I am glad that you like the software but we try everyday to get the best prices for our members.

\"Believe me, these local/regional vendors do want the business.\"

We have never had any luck in getting local vendors into our program such as E.B. Bradley. They are a distributor just like we are. They don't produce the product that they sell, they are a middle man. If you have reps that are interested in selling through the program, then have them call us and we can go from there.

Greg,

Right now you can purchase through the software but shipping is outragous because of the duties. We are looking for Canadian vendors so that the shipping costs, duties, etc.. are reasonable. If you have any vendors that you would like to see in the software, please let us know

thanks,

Brian Shannon · Post by **Brian Shannon** » Tue, Sep 18 2007, 11:27AM

Peter,

That's a great idea to buy SOME items through THM. I cannot buy everything for a job through THM or I would not get the job and wouldn't need ANY hardware but would like to support the co-op. I, for one will start buying what I can through THM. Also, you are so right about CalDoor. My rep.(Donnie)just left my shop 5 minutes ago and I told him basically the same thing that you are saying about their product. That's why I won't use the \"other guys\".

Brian

Greg Smith · Post by **Greg Smith** » Tue, Sep 18 2007, 1:49PM

I don't know how Blum works, but Haffele has at least one Canadian warehouse and I think more. If the order could be processed with them instead of the American warehouse then the cost shouldn't be that bad. And since alot of their line is from over seas, the Canadian warehouse might have better prices. Maybe???. As for others, it would be great to see places like Richelieu or McFaddens or a whole list of others but I can see their hestitation signing on unless they can see how they can get new customers they wouldn't already sell to. Too bad. As for component suppliers, Gingrich Woodcraft for drawers or Saint Georges Doors for doors are two I use now and might be interested. Maybe you've already talked to them. I have a local moulding guy that might be interested too. What sort of agreement do you set up with suppliers? I will say, I think to realy get the most out of this software is to be able to use it for purchasing as well as design, just for me, in Canada, its not cost effective enough yet. Hopefully it will be soon.

Joe Dusel · Post by **Joe Dusel** » Tue, Sep 18 2007, 2:52PM

Jason,

As for the free shipping, if we could get the local/regional vendors into the system they already provide free shipping via their trucks in their local areas. I will contact my local reps and see if there is any interest in being part of the co-op.

I am of course not expecting free shipping for other than local vendors.

Regarding the vendors looking for new business, I may be wrong, but I've been contacted by a number of the reps lately, and if they were swamped with business I don't think they would be stopping by.

I really want the co-op part of this venture to be highly successful, not only to fund the software, but to be a practical way for us to be able to buy anything we need to make furniture and cabinetry. This part of the system should (in my opinion) be setup such that even those who have no desire to use the eCabs software will want to use the co-op as their preferred way to get their supplies.

Joe

David Norton · Post by **David Norton** » Tue, Sep 18 2007, 4:19PM

Jason,
I for one did not mean to be critical of the Co-op. I would love to use it, it's simply a matter of economics for us at the moment.

I am currently badgering a shop that I do alot of business with about a CNC. They are in the market. But they need to be sold!

I will continue to support this program however I can, but as I said before I am just a minnow in a very large pond .

Philip Lengden · Post by **Philip Lengden** » Thu, Oct 04 2007, 9:12PM

As a new Canadian user I agree that sorting out the purchasing side of things for us would be a huge boost for eCabs \"Canada\". Personally I'd like to see Hettich added to the suppliers list. They have warehouses throughout Canada and I find their prices well below Blum and Hafele, and the quality is excellent.

On another note, but along the same lines. Why doesn't eCabs have a Hole Pattern Sharing facility. It seems silly for each us to have to re-draw these hole patterns when they already exist. I know that Hettich has some CAD drawings on their website - why not support eCab and have the suppliers generate these patterns?