Drill Bank Plunge rate

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BenRatt
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Drill Bank Plunge rate

Postby BenRatt » Wed, Jun 05 2013, 12:10PM

We're using the 9 spindle HSD drill bank to drill closet system thru holes in melamine. We're having to slow the plunge to 50ipm to get a decent hole quality with minimal chipout. We are using V-point bits (because we need thru holes) and have tried several brands and grinds. The bottom chipout is never an issue it's the top chipout that is a problem. We tried brad point and it does great on top but really blows out the bottom if you land on an already drilled hole in the wasteboard. We really need to speed up the plunge to at least 150ipm. Anyone have any suggestions?
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Re: Drill Bank Plunge rate

Postby mohan kommineni » Mon, Jun 10 2013, 7:10PM

BenRatt wrote:We're using the 9 spindle HSD drill bank to drill closet system thru holes in melamine. We're having to slow the plunge to 50ipm to get a decent hole quality with minimal chipout. We are using V-point bits (because we need thru holes) and have tried several brands and grinds. The bottom chipout is never an issue it's the top chipout that is a problem. We tried brad point and it does great on top but really blows out the bottom if you land on an already drilled hole in the wasteboard. We really need to speed up the plunge to at least 150ipm. Anyone have any suggestions?



Hello BenRatt

can i just ask you what spindle speeds are you running at as we use 9 spindle drill bank and 7000RPM and plunge at 3000plunge on mdf melamine boards and 7000rpm and 6000 plunge on melamine particale board,to avoid chipping we have the brad point drills (all the 9 drills )day light increased by 1.2mm manually after doing the auto measure for the allowed drill.
we have not faced any issues after increasing the daylight by 1.2mm but before that we had the chipping issues on melamine

Thanks
Mohan

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Re: Drill Bank Plunge rate

Postby BenRatt » Tue, Jun 11 2013, 8:07AM

Our HSD spindle only runs at 3450 rpm. If it ran faster we could plunge quicker but I guess that's just a limitation with it. Do you have any issues on the underside of your melamine panels with blow out with the brad points? We are drilling all the way thru the panels. We are doing closet panels.
Ben Ratterree

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http://www.blueridgecabs.com

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Re: Drill Bank Plunge rate

Postby Daniel Odom » Tue, Jun 11 2013, 10:29AM

Your numbers sound right to me, is the chipping really that bad? There's always a little bit of chipping on the top when using the v-point but it's not enough for me to worry about. I've tried higher rpm's/feedrate and that seemed to make it worse. Sometimes the material can be a factor as well. Maybe try 2 or 3 brands/types of material and see if it makes a difference. Mohan is right about going a little deeper if you can.

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Re: Drill Bank Plunge rate

Postby mohan kommineni » Wed, Jun 12 2013, 7:36PM

BenRatt wrote:Our HSD spindle only runs at 3450 rpm. If it ran faster we could plunge quicker but I guess that's just a limitation with it. Do you have any issues on the underside of your melamine panels with blow out with the brad points? We are drilling all the way thru the panels. We are doing closet panels.


Hello Ben
yes i know the issue you are having the blow out on the bottom side of the melamine panel to minimise the issue try to go deeper in to the sacrifical board but unfortunately if the holes are repeated on the same spot or if the holes are on the spot where the cutter has previously made a grove on the sacrificial board yes its a pain then it may still have a blow out as you have now its really hard to control but only can try to minimise the blow out

you may have to play around and see what works better for you in tooling different angles regrinding and speeds and feeds

yes its an issue that we also face but because most of the jobs we do are covered with end panels and not really had a big issue so far.

lets see whether any of thermwood techs and engineers can help or suggest some tricks to us on this issue.

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Re: Drill Bank Plunge rate

Postby Scott Marshburn » Fri, Jun 14 2013, 9:04AM

Just a thought
If Blow out Is a issue can You make the holes on both sides of the part for example on 3/4 inch material instead of a through hole make one side 11/32 and the other side 11/32 then cheat the daylight for the bits.You can then use the flip operation first feature.
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Re: Drill Bank Plunge rate

Postby BenRatt » Fri, Jun 14 2013, 9:21AM

Not a bad idea Scott, but I'm afraid it'd be too time consuming for us right now. The router is running most of the day as it is, but it would produce a nice panel.

I've sped the plunge rate from 55 ipm to 100 ipm and I'm getting acceptable quality. The back side is perfect, but the top side has chip out on about 1/4 of the holes. Thanks for all the ideas everyone
Ben Ratterree

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Re: Drill Bank Plunge rate

Postby Will Williamson » Fri, Jun 14 2013, 11:34AM

Have you spoke to your tooling supplier? Call Vortex 715 355 7707
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Re: Drill Bank Plunge rate

Postby Scott Marshburn » Fri, Jun 14 2013, 11:35AM

We have not cut a lot of mel. But if I remember correctly we had the same issue with particleboard core. It would be nice to have the ability to set a pre plunge speed for drill operations so that we could plunge the drill at a slower rate for the first 1/6" or so then resume the normal plunge rate for the rest of the drill operation. This way the bit can slowly score the mel. skin before commenting to The plunge.
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Re: Drill Bank Plunge rate

Postby BenRatt » Fri, Jun 14 2013, 12:35PM

Yes, I had the same thought. Gannomat does something similiar with it's line boring machines. They have a hydraulic brake that slows the feed rate right before it punches through the panel when using V point bits for thru drill holes. But I asked Daniel about it and he said to keep dreaming. Haha
Ben Ratterree

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Neville Bastian
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Re: Drill Bank Plunge rate

Postby Neville Bastian » Sun, Jun 16 2013, 7:24PM

Ben what we need is Thermwoods smart-router logic. We use melamine here in Australia rather than ply. If you could adjust the drill plunge rate with its first contact with the board would be ideal.Just as you normally do as a human. Soft start but once penetrated then the pressure is increased. I think there is a lot of area's smart logic could happen. For example the running of a vac pump.Instead of having one or two pumps running full hilt all day this is adjusted based on vac lost. So maybe large parts require one pump but when there are a number of small parts still one pump then as the vac is lost as the small parts are released a second or third pump cranks up. If you have a inverter system this could adjust the power required. The other area is the cutting of last pass or release pass. If the first passes had a oversize function so that when the release pass occured it was at the correct size you would get a better cutter with no torque stress on the router bit. In theory the router bit is travelling on the same X or Y directions but in reality there is stresses when cutting material and there is router deflection.
These small things do improve the end result and give Thermwood a point of difference.

Well my suggestions may fall on deaf ears but at least Daniel may get a giggle out of it.

Regards Neville
Neville Australia


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