Machining single side material

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DanFecteau
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Machining single side material

Postby DanFecteau » Sat, Jan 26 2019, 1:02PM

I'd like to know how other people proceed when they have to machine single side materials like plam on one side and backing on the other side or for example birch plywood wich Always has a "A side" and a "B side" ? I thought that the "single side" option was created for this so it would create a nesting with sheets with A side up and sheets with B side up ? It's not the case, instead it creates everything with A side up and flip parts…..

For this Reason we have Always created 2 materials, one with A side up and one with B side up but I think it's a non sense ?

Any Reason for this process ?

How do you guys proceed ?

Thanks !

Mark McCallum
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Location: Sydney Aust

Re: Machining single side material

Postby Mark McCallum » Sun, Jan 27 2019, 2:32AM

Hi Dan
What does Plam mean? I think It means what I Call BAMO back: Back At Makers Option, which means 1st grade one side and pretty good or tidy with key hole or butterfly patches the other side and is about 2/3 of the cost of "good 2 sides", say $70 a sheet savings, so on a 10 sheet job it can save you $700 ?

If that's what you mean,

I am glad you raised it, because I was thinking about this exact same issue regarding a recent job we did about 2 months ago, so my recollections could be a little hazy.
I just hadn't, still haven't had time to think it fully think it through, so I could have it all wrong.

But I had actually said to my colleagues, I wonder how the other guys do it?
Because I reckon to sort a job out with flip ops on a single sided job would require someone with 3 university degrees and a hell of a lot of spare time on their hands :lol: so it just wasn't worth the time.

For the job we had that really made me think, it was a veneer floating shelf job. So I took a cabinet and took off the ends, applied dados and part editor cuts for recessed brackets and sent it to the machine.
I think I had problems not being able to tell at the machine which side to put up or down first to cut dados and part editor cuts on?
It just says face up or down........ And some sheets can cost a lot. :shock: :wink:
(I couldn't work out a simple way to view it at the machine or alert the operator (ME) which was the good face) and I think that is what you are referring to?, and as far as I could work out, you can’t designate a 1st grade face on an individual part in ecabs that goes through to the machine to get sorted onto the good face?.

I know when in the cabinet editor, the faces go into the part editor working from the center of the cabinet out, but with Kd fittings,dados, part editor cuts just general construction sometimes, (if you can’t do so already,) A simple quick way to designate the good face onto the part face of stretchers kicks, shelves etc would be helpful because you flip dados sometimes and forget the way it affect things untill too late.
We also use gloss boards which come with a protective film on one side, some units have doors and shelves with dados, and I think that gets confusing as well.

DanFecteau
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Re: Machining single side material

Postby DanFecteau » Sun, Jan 27 2019, 9:21AM

Plam is Plastic laminated. We do a lot of this. For example, Formica 7197 on one side and white backing on the other side (for the Inside of cabinet).

We do everything we can to avoid flip parts !!

I think the main goal for "single side" option should be to indicate to the cnc operator wich face to put up on the table and it's not the case right now so we never used "single side" option.

We have been working with thermwood cnc for over 15 years, we now have 2.

Right now we have to create 2 materials instead of one ;

7197-WB 11/16'' x 4 x 8
WB-7197 11/16'' x 4 x 8

First caracters indicates side up on the table.

It's working just fine but we have twice materials we should in our library.

What I would like is that when we use "single side" option is that it separates A side up material and B side up material in the nesting, instead of creating flip parts, wich is a pain....

I think it should help everybody ?

Mark McCallum
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Posts: 336
Joined: Thu, Jun 16 2005, 7:53PM
Location: Sydney Aust

Re: Machining single side material

Postby Mark McCallum » Mon, Jan 28 2019, 7:41PM

Hi Dan
Thanks for the explanation of plam. In our area we refer to it as melamine board, double or single sided

We have had our machine for about 7 months, so still have tonnes to learn. :? and are still slowly learning operating techniques and procedure.
(It's a secret desire of mine to one day visit the Thermwood plant and get some in depth training)

I hadn't considered using single sided material to influence machining sequencing on the machine.

And sorry for the boorish questions / responses, it takes me a while to learn, clarify stuff. (And others seem not to have insights into this)
So thinking out loud.
I think I see, what you mean.
I had sort of been thinking, that the A side, as looking into the cabinet was placed face up onto the sheet, same as (but thinking about it now, not the same as), ticking single sided material.

So, I haven't tried it
, but I think you are saying even if we ticked the single sided option, and took into consideration that the good side gets placed onto the internal faces in ecabs it gets confusing at the machine if there are flip ops present?
or when flip ops are present it doesn't sort the flip ops onto the respective faces as expected? it all goes onto the one board ignoring faces?

And to also clarify for the operator, at the machine when loading, it would say something like "load sheet good side up" or
flip OP 1st side, load good side down (or up)?
Thanking you
Mark

DanFecteau
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Re: Machining single side material

Postby DanFecteau » Mon, Jan 28 2019, 7:51PM

And to also clarify for the operator, at the machine when loading, it would say something like "load sheet good side up" or
flip OP 1st side, load good side down (or up)?

Yes, that's exactly what we would need ! If not I don't see any use for single option in my mind !

Clint Buechlein
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Re: Machining single side material

Postby Clint Buechlein » Tue, Jan 29 2019, 9:10AM

Single sided material always gets outline cuts done with A side up. So if you have a pocket or a drill on the B side, there will be a flip operation. The dialog will tell you to load BACK side up. This is referring to the B side of the material. The A and B sides of the material can be set in eCabinets from the main view of Cabinet Editor, right click, and choose Edit Material A Side. As a rule of thumb, by default parts that are "seen" are A side (insides of cabinets, outsides of doors, etc.).

Dan, if you want to avoid flip operations, your current procedure would be the best way to handle it. There is going to be some form of loss regardless of how you handle it. Either you do it your way and lose some yield, or let it be handled as per usual with one material that is single sided and be forced into flip operations.

-Clint-

DanFecteau
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Re: Machining single side material

Postby DanFecteau » Tue, Jan 29 2019, 9:31AM

I Don't know about other guys but I'd rather lose a little bit of yield than having to machine flip parts...


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