Strange Tool Height Problem

Discuss Thermwood 3-axis Machinery, Controller, and Software.

Moderators: Jason Susnjara, Larry Epplin, Clint Buechlein, Jim Bullis

Post Reply
Jon Cantin
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat, Apr 30 2022, 2:58PM
Company Name: CNCROi com
Country: CANADA

Strange Tool Height Problem

Post by Jon Cantin »

I've been having a very strange problem with my thermwood since I bought it used almost a year ago - basically, it automatically changes the height of the bit after tool length was made based on the tool position.

My workaround has been using digital calipers and adjusting material thickness and depth of cut manually in vcarve but I'm getting to the point where this just doesn't cut it anymore as the projects I'm doing now are getting more complex with tighter tolerances.

PROCESS:
I took all the tools out of their tool holders and just put one tool into my machine. I then made a program in vcarvepro 11.5 and put a different tool number in this program and updated the tool position in thermwood control as well, re-doing the tool lengths each time before doing my z-height test "cut". So basically, the same tool was doing the same thing (same collet assembly) but using different tool numbers each time to do the same job.

The height off the spoilboard that my "cut" was supposed to do is 1" above it so all the numbers below SHOULD be 1". (z-test shows the vcarve program I made along with outputs)

I have replaced -Tool_len.nc3 and -TOOLSEN3.SUB with backups in case those were corrupted.

Results I got are

t=1 0.7" (0.3" lower than it should be)
t=2 0.8" (0.2" lower than it should be)
t=3 -1/8" (little over an inch lower than it should be)
t=4 0.1" (0.9" lower than it should be)

So as you see, NONE of these are at 1" above the spoilboard as they should be, pics.zip shows the daylight of the same two bits (above test done using 1/8" carving bit) and they are all dead-on regardless tool position.

Any ideas? These "automatic" offsets happen regardless of the bit I use - like I wrote, they are consistently wrong, which is why I can work around it.
Supercontrol 91000 v 5.05
Attachments
pics.zip
(1.91 MiB) Downloaded 95 times
z-test.zip
(12.89 KiB) Downloaded 90 times
Jon Cantin
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat, Apr 30 2022, 2:58PM
Company Name: CNCROi com
Country: CANADA

Re: Strange Tool Height Problem

Post by Jon Cantin »

After further investigating, I still can't figure out what's going on but looking at my attached test.zip, you'll notice the following.

1) All the tool lengths across the board are identical when I do the tool length calculation (as it should be) @ 8.50 daylight. I'm using the same tool in the same holder for each test, just changing location to rule out any tool variation.

2) When I load IDENTICAL cut programs with the only variation being the tool location using the same tool calculated above in all 4 spots, I now see daylight variations of B4 9.126, B3 9.668, B2 8.596 and B1 8.434 - shouldn't these be identical? It's like the daylight is being ignored for some other value somewhere else.

Any ideas?
Attachments
test.zip
(7 MiB) Downloaded 76 times
Will Williamson
Guru Member
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu, Dec 08 2005, 6:10PM
Company Name: Williamson Finewoodwork
Country: UNITED STATES
Location: Capac MI
Contact:

Re: Strange Tool Height Problem

Post by Will Williamson »

Have you called Thermwood tech support?
Will

http://www.willmade.com

KEG/Intel Core i 7 CPU K875 @ 2.93 GHZ/12G Ram
Dual boot XP PRO/Windows 7 Nvidia Quatro 600 1Gig Ram
Jon Cantin
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat, Apr 30 2022, 2:58PM
Company Name: CNCROi com
Country: CANADA

Re: Strange Tool Height Problem

Post by Jon Cantin »

CNC Automation sent msg to Thermwood about this but nothing yet. I also tried replacing my toolman with one of their backups, and it actually made the problem worse because not only were the heights off even more but it was also grabbing the wrong tool from the tool holder.

So it doesn't seem like this issue is like this one about database corruption
https://www.thermwood.com/forums/viewto ... man#p47256
but maybe the backup itself was corrupted (???)

I replaced my 20 year old ShopBot with this 20 year old Thermwood and other than this issue, it's SOLID! Replaced the internal hard drive with SSD and it gave it a new lease on life speed wise. I do all my programming in vectric, so I don't use any other the internal software that came with the machine.

Jon
Will Williamson
Guru Member
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu, Dec 08 2005, 6:10PM
Company Name: Williamson Finewoodwork
Country: UNITED STATES
Location: Capac MI
Contact:

Re: Strange Tool Height Problem

Post by Will Williamson »

Have you taken apart the touch pad and cleaned it ? I have heard that that era machine, does not play well with ssd hard drive
My machine is a 2005 CS45 go back to the original HD and see what happens
Will

http://www.willmade.com

KEG/Intel Core i 7 CPU K875 @ 2.93 GHZ/12G Ram
Dual boot XP PRO/Windows 7 Nvidia Quatro 600 1Gig Ram
Jon Cantin
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat, Apr 30 2022, 2:58PM
Company Name: CNCROi com
Country: CANADA

Re: Strange Tool Height Problem

Post by Jon Cantin »

The touchpad was cleaned and lubricated when I got it a year ago, it always gives accurate results - had CNC Automation techs commission the machine after I got it from a retired cabinet shop, the only reason I can actually use the machine for production is because it's always consistently wrong by the same values so I can adjust accordingly with vectric, otherwise it would be a 12 000 lbs brick.

This problem was present with the old HD as well, the SSD is a mirror copy of it... the tech at the time blamed vectric for these problems, I told him it was NOT vectric but he stood by his assessment even after I showed him this wasn't the case and he just left me with what I got now for the past year.

Tried to bring the issue up a few times but nobody was able to find a solution thus far other thing upgrading the control, which is huge $$$.

Jon
Will Williamson
Guru Member
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu, Dec 08 2005, 6:10PM
Company Name: Williamson Finewoodwork
Country: UNITED STATES
Location: Capac MI
Contact:

Re: Strange Tool Height Problem

Post by Will Williamson »

Has it ever worked correctly, since you have owned ?
I run Aspire, all the time, never an issue.
Can you not call Thermwwod tech support directly?
Thermwood tech support has never let me down
1 800 221 3865
Will

http://www.willmade.com

KEG/Intel Core i 7 CPU K875 @ 2.93 GHZ/12G Ram
Dual boot XP PRO/Windows 7 Nvidia Quatro 600 1Gig Ram
Jon Cantin
New Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat, Apr 30 2022, 2:58PM
Company Name: CNCROi com
Country: CANADA

Re: Strange Tool Height Problem

Post by Jon Cantin »

Sylvain and Brad @ CNC Automation did figure something out and it seems a combination of things fixed this, I have a 4 position bar.

Basically, I was using vectric tool # for the bits as my tool location as I had been taught by the tech who came to set-up my machine, meaning tool #8 for example I would put #4 (location) in vectric for that bit - didn't realize thermwood gets location from tool manager and not vectric.

It just happens that the location and the tool #s over the past year matched perfectly with how I work with the machine so it never grabbed the wrong tool location for the tooling I input, though it had the wrong daylights, hence things getting more weird the more tool combinations I was using.

This also explains why, when I used the factory toolman (replacing mine built-up over the past year), it kept grabbing the wrong tools I'd call-up in Vectric, as I had to re-input them and things were now totally jumbled. Tool #s and locations didn't match anymore. Again, absolute co-incidence that everything worked short of wrong z-heights.

During this time of sorting things out to no avail, I also replaced the dead battery on my motherboard and updated files sent to me by CNC Automation to rule out other problems.

Things seem dead-on now, thanks Brad and Sylvain.

Jon
Post Reply