Graphics Cards

[DanEpps]

There have been numerous posts concerning graphics (video) cards in this forum. Most have centered around "do I really need an nVidia Quadro FX or will something less suffice?"

Many posts also contain discussions about system performance and allude to video performance as being the culprit.

A previous thread had a lot of posts about nVidia's Quadro FX graphics cards versus their GeForce cards. Since the information about graphics cards was getting buried in that thread, I started this one.

First off, let's set some ground rules:

1. Express your opinions, observations and questions in a professional, not personal manner.
2. Technical information provided by link or citation should come directly from nVidia Corporation and not third parties.
3. Do not attack the integrity of any poster to this thread.
4. Limit posts in this thread to discussion of graphics cards and not to general computer questions/observations.

Okay, let's get started...

Lets begin by looking at different types of computer systems and their graphics needs.

In the early days of personal computers, graphics weren't an issue as everything was monochrome text. As users became more sophisticated and demanding, the PC evolved into what we think of as a computer today.

There are basically five different architectures for today's computers:

1. Consumer grade systems designed for casual use/internet browsing, etc.

2. Business grade systems designed to run business applications such as word processing, spreadsheets, accounting programs, etc.

3. Gaming systems designed to provide extremely fast performance for video games.

4. Servers designed to house files or applications for use by many users on a network or the internet.

5. Professional workstation grade systems designed to meet the technical demands of CAD, CAM, professional video production, professional audio production, game development, etc.

Consumer grade systems typically have graphics processing embedded chips into the motherboard of the computer. They use part of the computer's RAM to process graphics and generally work fine for internet browsing because the graphics demands are not high. Since these systems use system RAM instead of having dedicated video RAM, resources for other functions are reduced.

Business grade systems typically have similar graphics configurations as consumer grade systems but generally produce slightly better graphics for charts, etc. These systems usually support faster CPUs, more memory, bigger/faster disk drives and upgradable graphics capabilities.

Gaming systems offer very fast CPUs, large RAM and graphics cards that have very fast processors and large RAM. These graphics cards are optimized to support Microsoft Corporation's DirectX specification for processing 3D graphics. Video games are designed using DirectX as their 3D processing engine so these cards are the best solution. The main feature of DirectX is speed--very important in video games.

Servers have very low graphics needs. Most servers do not even have monitors, relying instead on a central control workstation for access to the server.

Profession workstations, like gaming systems, have very demanding graphics needs but the need differ greatly from that of video games. While speed is certainly important for workstations, precision is usually far more important--especially when the system is used for CAD or professional video production. If you have ever created a video on your PC then played it on your TV you know what I'm talking about.

Now with the background surface scratched, here are a couple of links that provide comparative technical information of nVidia's Quadro FX series cards versus their GeForce series gaming cards.

The first illustrates Quadro FX hardware features not found in GeForce.

The second is the Quadro vs GeForce Technical Brief which contains more technical information about the two cards.

After reading these documents from nVidia Corporation, post your comments, questions, observations, etc.

[DanEpps]

Oh, by the way, this thread is NOT directed at anyone...it is just to provide technical information.

[DanEpps]

One thing I forgot about workstation graphics cards: They are optimed to use OpenGL, the graphics specification used by technical applications such as CAD.

Most gaming cards have secondary support for OpenGL and most workstation cards have secondary support for DirectX. Note that in both cases this is secondary, not primary support.

[Dean Fehribach]

I believe that Dan's restriction of allowing only nVidia references is too strong. Only sourcing the manufacturer requires one to filter through the ad propaganda. If Dan doesn't mind, I believe opening up the references to reputable sources such as PC Mag, Tom's Hardware, PC World, CNet, Computer World, and others would be a good thing.

Wikipedia, which was referenced in another thread, is a great general resource and I use it to quickly gather early information on a topic. Unfortunately, its information can be tainted for political, personal, or corporate reasons. The wiki on routers for woodworking is an example; it has a notice at the top that the article may be less than genuine. (Check out the photo of a "cnc wood router" in the cnc wood router wiki!) Abraham Lincoln's wiki had to be locked for a period of time because it was being defaced on a regular basis.

[DanEpps]

Sources such as Dean listed are indeed good sources of independent technical information and product reviews. Even with the addition of those sources, the list is not complete.

What I should have said is that citations should be from sources know to provide good information. As Dean says, Wiki is a good source for high-level information but, as articles can be edited by anyone having access to them, verify the information with sources such as those he listed.

[Joe Harkin]

This is a copy of my last post in the PC Requirements thread.
Well, I started this brouhaha so I guess I should offer a final comment, and a bit explanation for the basis of the OP. I have found the responses to be very informative, and the bottom line, unfortunately is "it all depends".
WARNING- This is going to ramble on a bit but bear with me.
I am a one-man local remodeling contractor who occasionally gets a chance to design and build custom cabinetry and furniture. A few years ago I stumbled across eCabinets and tried it out, but never used it much until recently. I am also an ex-IT/Telecom guy (20+ yrs) who was there to evaluate the original IBM PC 64K (yes 64K) dual-floppy (NO hard drives yet) machine for corporate use. I'm also an inveterate d-i-yer and a techie at heart, so I play around with and on the PC more than I should.
I am currently running on a 5+ yr old Dell4600, P4/2,4MHz, 1G RAM (mixed speeds - not optimal), 55G hard drive w/17G free, ATI Radeon 9000 AIO video card 64Mb(w/TV). The system is still serviceable, and runs most of the stuff I do pretty well, but it is getting tired and cluttered and newer apps take longer than I like to wait sometimes, so I decided to look at a new system (BTW This is from the perspective of someone who ran TELETYPE networks in the air transport industry, operating at a blazing 15 bps).
New system because I don't dare try to dismantle this one and upgrade it - 20 years worth of business and personal records; backed-up, yes but fear of re-installing.
I have a very reliable 'in-house' tech support helper - my son is an RPI M.E. with computer savvy far beyond mine, who is also something of a CAD/CAM expert, and who is a Software QA manager for Parametric Technology and knows Pro-Engineer inside-out (folks like Boeing use it to design stuff like 777 airliners).
He and I have built more than a few PC's over the years, and he's still in the thick of it every day, and every bit the d-i-yer himself. (I'm flattered that he still asks me for advice occasionally).
The specs I posted were for a system that could be put together for around $600 or less, provide lots more capability and capacity than I have now, and be incrementally upgradeable with open-market parts for several more years.
He has the ATI 4670/512MB video card running on one of his PCs and it will run Pro-E renderings with little effort. It does have OpenGL support. And it can be had in the range of $50. T paraphrase Glenn Warner, if I should be fortunate enough to get a job requiring the extended rendering capability of the Nvidia Quadro, I'll buy one and sell this one.
Thank you all again for the commentary, and I'll report the results of the new system after I get it up and running alongside this one (PS I haven't tried opening Kerry's Stage file yet but I doubt it will run on this system)
I'm also going to copy-post this in Dan's new thread on graphics cards and finish up there.

[Gregory Hairston]

Dan,
Please post your system specs. What I would like to see is benchmarks that we can do here on the forum. Possibly using one fairly complex file and timing the load time and render time. This will give everyone an idea on how well their systems are performing compared to some of the powerhouse workstations

Greg

[DanEpps]

Dan,
Please post your system specs. What I would like to see is benchmarks that we can do here on the forum. Possibly using one fairly complex file and timing the load time and render time. This will give everyone an idea on how well their systems are performing compared to some of the powerhouse workstations

Greg

I have posted my system specs numerous times in the past, but here they are again. Remember, however, this thread is about video cards only and not computer systems, so a separate thread should be started if you wish to discuss that topic.

-- Dell Precision Workstation 380
-- 3.4GHz Pentium D
-- 2GB RAM
-- nVidia Quadro FX 540 with 128MB deidcated video RAM
-- Samsung HD160JJ/P hard drive
- 160GB
- 7200 RPM
- SATA 3Gbps interface
- 8MB DRAM buffer
-- Windows XP Porfessional version 2002 Service Pack 3