Freezing/crashing

[Peter Unger]

I have been trying to upload the job but it won't work. It chugs along for about 5 minutes and then quits. I zipped the files and it still doesn't upload. I had to split the job into 2 files to keep it from crashing. The one file is 32MB and the other is 14MB before I zipped them.

I did change the grid settings as Rick suggested. No difference.

Leo, I have 4GB of RAM installed on my computer and it is now maxed out. If I want more RAM, I need a different computer.

I have no line drawings on this job but I have noticed on previous small jobs that adding line drawings will use up a lot of memory.

I do sometimes work on a job for several hours at a time without rebooting. How would rebooting make a difference?

[Leo Graywacz]

I do sometimes work on a job for several hours at a time without rebooting. How would rebooting make a difference?

eCab has sloppy memory management. Rebooting will start it fresh.

[Kerry Fullington]

Peter,

I think Leo is looking at the specs for Justin's (the original poster) computer.
I think your computer should work just fine.

If you have a lot of line drawings saved with a job it can slow ecabinets down.
If you have an exceptionally large grid size set it can slow eCabinets down.

When I notice a slowdown I save the job, exit ecabinets and completely shut down the computer then re start. (a simple re-start of windows doesn't seem to work for me I have to shut down) This seems to open up some RAM.

Do a search on the forum for Virtual Memory and take Dan Epps advice for VM settings. If your computer has to add Virtual Memory while you are working on a job that really slows things down.

Make sure you are running the latest drivers for your video card.

Make sure your computer is clean

Don't run anything in the background (other than anti virus) while working in eCabinets

Don't run other applications while running eCabinets.

email your zipped jobs to me at kerry@kerryfullington.com I would like to see if I can find what is slowing you down.

Kerry

[DanEpps]

I think the issue you are running into is that your job is using more than 4GB of VIRTUAL ADDRESS SPACE, which is the maximum that Windows can address. Every process in Windows is allocated 4GB virtual address space. That is not to be confused with RAM (physical memory) or swap space (virtual memory). It is merely the amount of address locations that a process can use. If you add all of the PEAK physical, virtual and temporary memory requirements for a process, that is how much virtual address space you need. If it is more than 4GB the process will crash.

If you have 4GB RAM (Windows can only use 3GB by the way) and your virtual memory is set to 4GB (or greater), you will still run out of address space if the process requires more than 4GB.

Think of it like this: A developer is building a subdivision. The Post Office allocates addresses based on a specific lot size and the addresses run from 100 to 999 for a total of 900 addresses. The developer then decides to build 1000 houses instead of 900 and guess what--there are no more addresses available. This is similar to what happens in Winndows when your application needs more than 4GB of address space.

[Peter Unger]

Thanks Dan and Kerry for your help. I sent you an email Kerry with the zip files.

I'm curious Dan, if I am maxing out my VAS, is there a way to tweak it? I have read on another site that the 4GB is divided in two. 2GB for processes and 2GB for the system. I don't understand the process but from what I have read, it sounds like that I should be able to allocate 3GB to processes and 1GB to system. Do you know anything about this?

I will start making a habit of rebooting and see how that works out.

I am also wondering how people use eCabs when they are working on an extremely large project, say a 100MB file. Do they chop the job into 3 or 4 pieces?

Thanks

[Kerry Fullington]

Peter,

I didn't get your email. You might try sending it to roscoe@xit.net
Kerry

[DanEpps]

Thanks Dan and Kerry for your help. I sent you an email Kerry with the zip files.

I'm curious Dan, if I am maxing out my VAS, is there a way to tweak it? I have read on another site that the 4GB is divided in two. 2GB for processes and 2GB for the system. I don't understand the process but from what I have read, it sounds like that I should be able to allocate 3GB to processes and 1GB to system. Do you know anything about this?

I will start making a habit of rebooting and see how that works out.

I am also wondering how people use eCabs when they are working on an extremely large project, say a 100MB file. Do they chop the job into 3 or 4 pieces?

Thanks

That is correct, it is partitioned. What you read concerns how Windows automatically partitions virtual address space.

If you have the /3GB switch set for startup, you will get the 3GB/1GB partitions. Otherwise, you get 2GB/2GB. This can only be set on Windows Server 2003, 2000 Datacenter Server, 2000 Advanced Server and XP Professional (so those who are reading this and are using XP home: you are out of luck ).

To set (or check) the startup switches, right-click on "My Computer" and choose "Properties." On the dialog that is displayed, click on the "Advanced" tab then the "Settings" button in the "Startup and Recovery" section...see attached screen grab:

Windows Startup.jpg (65.67 KiB) Viewed 15459 times

What you want it to say is "Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /3GB /NoExecute=OptOut in the dropdown. If it doesn't, click the "Edit" button and you will see the boot.ini file in Notepad. It will look like this:

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /3GB /NoExecute=OptOut

Just edit to add "/3GB", save and reboot. Be aware that the multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS may be different on your system--DO NOT CHANGE IT OR YOUR SYSTEM WILL NOT BOOT!!!

[Peter Unger]

OK Kerry, I sent the job files again using roscoe@xit.net.

Thanks Dan for the instructions on changing the VAS. I will try that as well.

[Peter Unger]

Well Dan, your advice on changing the VAS did the trick. I just finished a 43MB file with no freezing/crashing whatsoever. My computer was using 2GB of RAM by the time I finished the job and Ecabs was the only program that I had opened at the time. So my decision to upgrade my RAM to 4GB was also warranted.

[Leo Graywacz]

Hey Dan, I am using XP Pro and I went an d checked for the heck of it and I am set at the default of 2gb/2gb.

I really don't have any issues with speed, other that why can't it be 10x quicker, but that is another post

Is there any reason I should be changing this over to the 3gb/1gb parameter? Or is this something that I should be changing only if I am having problems?

Thanks.

[DanEpps]

It won't hurt anything and, even if it did, you can change it back in the time it takes to reboot.

[Donald Thomson]

One thing I've noticed is the ever creeping up of memory usage of eCab. I found that each time I do a save of a job, the memory usage (according to Task Manager) goes up by about 100MB. There are some very big memory leaks in eCabs.

It is the only program I've ever seen (30 years working with computers) that uses so much memory. I've developed materials management, parts manufacturing scheduling and train car and truck trailer loading programs for General Motors parts and assembly plants that ran in about 500KB of memory. These programs processed 100's of thousands of records each time they ran. Memory was REALLY expensive so we had to be very efficient code writers as well as properly release memory when it was no longer needed so other programs could use it. This was all done on IBM mainframes where CPU time and disk I/O was VERY expensive.

I hope the eCab memory usage and leaking is brought under control in V6.

[DanEpps]

One thing I've noticed is the ever creeping up of memory usage of eCab. I found that each time I do a save of a job, the memory usage (according to Task Manager) goes up by about 100MB. There are some very big memory leaks in eCabs.

It is the only program I've ever seen (30 years working with computers) that uses so much memory. I've developed materials management, parts manufacturing scheduling and train car and truck trailer loading programs for General Motors parts and assembly plants that ran in about 500KB of memory. These programs processed 100's of thousands of records each time they ran. Memory was REALLY expensive so we had to be very efficient code writers as well as properly release memory when it was no longer needed so other programs could use it. This was all done on IBM mainframes where CPU time and disk I/O was VERY expensive.

I hope the eCab memory usage and leaking is brought under control in V6.

The reason you see memory usage creeping up is that Windows memory management is not the best in the world. Deallocation takes place only when memory is needed by another process.

Mainframes use a far different memory management model (I'm an old MVS systems guy ) and it is very efficient. In MVS, you get a tiny slice of memory and your process is swapped out a lot...often you get less than 0.1ms in process before being swapped out. Windows on the other hand, allocates a lot of address space to each process and only swaps out if the process is idle and another it in queue.

Since eCabinets processes consist of tons of 3D data, they naturally consume more memory than text-based program data. A single cabinet may contain more program data than 100,000 database rows in a text-based application.

I think the real culprit is HOOPS 3D. HOOPS is the component responsilbe for 3D processing and if it is inefficient, the consuming application will be inefficient.