How do you change the waste board thickness without flycutting?

[Mark McCallum]

Is there a way to change the thickness of the waste board with out doing a fly cut?

I seem to want to do this fairly regular and I wonder if you guys have a simpler / easier way.
For example.
We cut benchtop blanks for laminating and one material thickness is 33mm x 3600 x 610 and the other thickness is 32 mm x 2420 x 1200.
I want them to be the same thickness.

So to thickness the thicker sheet, Mid job, I bump up the thickness of the waste board to existing waste board thickness plus 33mm, change the width to 640 and flycut it down to 32. All good.

Now I want to return the waste board to the old thickness.
But I cant find a way to just return it to the old thickness.
To get the old thickness into the settings I have to set the waste board to the true thickness plus an amount to flycut, so plus about .2mm for simplicity.

I then have to run the flycut procedure to get it to accept the original thickness.
It seems to need to load the flycutter then proceed to the ramp down and start flycutting before it takes the size.
So to be safe I push the sheet out of the way to save any mishaps.
I have tried putting in 0mm but it doesn’t get saved.

Just wondering if I’m missing something or if there is a simpler way to do this.
I can understand we don’t want to forget to flycut a waste board but a button to accept without flycutting would be handy.
Thanking you
Mark

[Stuart Douglas]

In the THM control, click on the file menu, edit dropdown, then go to machine variables. Scroll down until you see the value for wasteboard thickness. You can edit by double clicking on it. BE CAREFUL, a fat finger here can make a bad day. I often copy the existing value to the clipboard before changing it, so I have the old value without memorizing it, in case I get distracted or change my mind. This is a machine setting, not a nesting setting, so these changes can bite you if you run out of order.

I change this variable with the weather and humidity, to adjust for over/undercutting when the board swells/shrinks.

[Tommy Wieler]

Not sure if this helps. If not, just disregard.
In Control Nesting, go to the CNC Settings dialog, and enable the "Ck Waste Board Every Sheet" checkbox. This will throw up a dialog before cutting every sheet, enabling you to enter a custom wasteboard thickness before cutting. just a thought...

[Jeremy Schiffer]

I do it so often I can do it in my sleep:

CTRL-M, TAB, W, ENTER
Type in the new thickness. Easy peasy.
CTRL-M brings up Machine Variables, TAB puts focus into the variable window, W jumps to Wasteboard Thickness, ENTER highlights it, ready to type in the new number.

[Mark McCallum]

Thanks Guys.
Those are both very good options.
I like to stick within the fences when changing things on the machine.
Tommy, I hadn't thought of that one at all. I like safe-mode solutions


One day, I hope to become fully-pro like Jeremy and Tommy.
I only venture into machine variables rarely, and mainly to adjust for flip ops.

You must live on your machine Jeremy I like the hot keys

Thanks for the tips

[Tommy Wieler]

Mark, you've got me curious now. Sounds like I can learn something from you too. You mentioned adjusting for flip ops in Machine Variables. Could you explain that to me? I've been struggling with getting flip ops to align properly, and it sounds like you might have something to help me with that.

[Jeremy Schiffer]

Hey Mark, yeah, two machines keep me running. We adjust the wasteboard constantly during jobs - we shoot for between .05mm and .1mm cut-through... we like to see how long we can make wasteboards last. With that small amount of cut-through, the temperature and humidity changes throughout the day necessitate adjusting the wasteboard a lot. Ya gotta make that machine your b*tch, man...don't be afraid of it! Well, except when you should.

Seriously though, you can do a LOT with these things if you delve into the deeper workings beyond just loading CN generated cut files on them. AFL is a great way to make the machine do some crazy stuff. Also, we added an additional home-made bar tool holder to hold our flycutter, that way it wasn't occupying a precious tool position otherwise. I love tinkering with these machines. Have fun!

[Mark McCallum]

Hi Tommy.
I'll have a go.
This is just my way and I might have it a bit wrong.
Jeremy and others probably have other ways, (maybe / hopefully simpler ways) of doing it, but it works for me. (yes and I use the snipping tool take little notes and photograph the screen as you suggested).

So in machine variables there is table1 and table 2
The way I understand it is that Table 2 is what the machine uses most of the time for every normal sheet.
Table 1 really means side one, or this is the1st side to cut the flip ops into.

Normally when we only cut one side it doesn't refer to table one because everything is retaliative within the board.

Okay.
Some times, as you know the head gets out of alignment.
We have had it happen when we hit the emergency stop when it was going flat out instead of slowing it down. Or forgot to turn the vacuum on and it drags the sheet around......././...

Or for some reason it starts tramming when flycutting.
But anyway whenever you bump the head or the bridge, and it moves out of its old position and needs realigning. You have to to square it up again. Realign the head, or adjust the bridge back into square.

99% of the time when you readjust it back into square and flat it will change the center point position of the cutter in relation to the pop up pins.
It might only be a difference of .3 or .5 of a mm or 1/32" .... whatever.
So after it has moved, we have to tell the machine where the new boundaries are in relation to the pins.

Okay,
We use the lock dado joint quiet a lot and when they nest on flip ops it is quit easy to see how far out the alignment is.
There are gaps in the joint.

I have a couple of test pieces that we cut to work out which way to move it
I keep a vernier handy and measure the amount that it is out by.

So keeping in mind it cuts the flip op first you have to work out whether the machine thinks the locator pins are closer or further away and then adjust the 1st table longer or shorter or wider or narrower by the amount that it is out as read with your verniers.
I then cut another test piece and perhaps tweak it until I'm happy.

Its good to check for square 1st because that messes with flip ops as well.
I put a cover or waste sheet on and cut two 1180mm squares, mark x and y put a mark in one corner and flip one over so they are face to face line up the y side and see if there is any variation, it will always cut parallel but could be cutting rhomboids.

It will be out of square by half the distance of the variation.
Adjust and re-cut the squares down to 1170 test again.

Anyway hope that makes sense
Mark

[Mark McCallum]

Hi Jeremy.
I have no idea what an AFL is or does. (Well out here its Australian Football League and some people are nuts about it. Not me)
What AFL's do will be another thing to one day, to have a look at.

Yes waste boards are a another whole subject.
How many times, Its cutting okay, just needs a tidy up, give it a fly cut, but then it needs a tripple flycut, then it bows up, flip it over, re flycut. still not great.

The most useful thing I've found is to keep a 16mm melamine sheet to cover it as soon as you finish when its not being used.
I will definitely be using your system to tweak the thickness rather than fly cutting so often.

Its good to hear how you guys do things.
Thanks
Mark

[Jeremy Schiffer]

If you do any custom parts, or need a program that you can modify on the fly, the AFL can be a real help. As for Aussie Football, I enjoy watching that... especially the referees.

[Mark McCallum]

Hi Guys
I ashamed to admit this.
But...... I have clicked past that waste board thickness dialogue probably more than 3 or 4 thousand times in the last 4 years and never noticed it.

However.... my 6 sheets of flip ops today were near perfect.

[Clint Buechlein]

Hey Mark, yeah, two machines keep me running. We adjust the wasteboard constantly during jobs - we shoot for between .05mm and .1mm cut-through... we like to see how long we can make wasteboards last. With that small amount of cut-through, the temperature and humidity changes throughout the day necessitate adjusting the wasteboard a lot. Ya gotta make that machine your b*tch, man...don't be afraid of it! Well, except when you should.

Seriously though, you can do a LOT with these things if you delve into the deeper workings beyond just loading CN generated cut files on them. AFL is a great way to make the machine do some crazy stuff. Also, we added an additional home-made bar tool holder to hold our flycutter, that way it wasn't occupying a precious tool position otherwise. I love tinkering with these machines. Have fun!

If you want to get really in to it with AFL you can write a program to run that will log the date, time, and previous waste board value to a text value, update Machine Variables to the new value, and tie it all to a Custom Action button on the side of the screen. Then you can keep track of value changes through the day with one click and typing numbers in.

Hi Jeremy.
I have no idea what an AFL is or does. (Well out here its Australian Football League and some people are nuts about it. Not me)
What AFL's do will be another thing to one day, to have a look at.

Yes waste boards are a another whole subject.
How many times, Its cutting okay, just needs a tidy up, give it a fly cut, but then it needs a tripple flycut, then it bows up, flip it over, re flycut. still not great.

The most useful thing I've found is to keep a 16mm melamine sheet to cover it as soon as you finish when its not being used.
I will definitely be using your system to tweak the thickness rather than fly cutting so often.

Its good to hear how you guys do things.
Thanks
Mark

AFL for us is Advanced Function Language. For the most part, if you see lines of code inside of brackets that is AFL. It drives the message boxes that come up telling you to locate material, adjusts the waste board value when you run flycut, tells the control to do something based off user input, we recently used it to have the machine play sound effects at the AWFS in Las Vegas, and much much more.

-Clint-

[Clint Buechlein]

Hi Tommy.
I'll have a go.
This is just my way and I might have it a bit wrong.
Jeremy and others probably have other ways, (maybe / hopefully simpler ways) of doing it, but it works for me. (yes and I use the snipping tool take little notes and photograph the screen as you suggested).

So in machine variables there is table1 and table 2
The way I understand it is that Table 2 is what the machine uses most of the time for every normal sheet.
Table 1 really means side one, or this is the1st side to cut the flip ops into.

Normally when we only cut one side it doesn't refer to table one because everything is retaliative within the board.

Okay.
Some times, as you know the head gets out of alignment.
We have had it happen when we hit the emergency stop when it was going flat out instead of slowing it down. Or forgot to turn the vacuum on and it drags the sheet around......././...

Or for some reason it starts tramming when flycutting.
But anyway whenever you bump the head or the bridge, and it moves out of its old position and needs realigning. You have to to square it up again. Realign the head, or adjust the bridge back into square.

99% of the time when you readjust it back into square and flat it will change the center point position of the cutter in relation to the pop up pins.
It might only be a difference of .3 or .5 of a mm or 1/32" .... whatever.
So after it has moved, we have to tell the machine where the new boundaries are in relation to the pins.

Okay,
We use the lock dado joint quiet a lot and when they nest on flip ops it is quit easy to see how far out the alignment is.
There are gaps in the joint.

I have a couple of test pieces that we cut to work out which way to move it
I keep a vernier handy and measure the amount that it is out by.

So keeping in mind it cuts the flip op first you have to work out whether the machine thinks the locator pins are closer or further away and then adjust the 1st table longer or shorter or wider or narrower by the amount that it is out as read with your verniers.
I then cut another test piece and perhaps tweak it until I'm happy.

Its good to check for square 1st because that messes with flip ops as well.
I put a cover or waste sheet on and cut two 1180mm squares, mark x and y put a mark in one corner and flip one over so they are face to face line up the y side and see if there is any variation, it will always cut parallel but could be cutting rhomboids.

It will be out of square by half the distance of the variation.
Adjust and re-cut the squares down to 1170 test again.

Anyway hope that makes sense
Mark

I usually just use an edge finder such a this one https://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-050101- ... r=8-5&th=1. Mine specifically is a General Tools 260. Load it in a tool holder, locate a sheet of material into the pins, mark on the sheet where the pins touch, vacuum on to the table to keep sheet from moving, turn the spindle on at 1000 rpm, teach the machine over to get the edge finder touching the edge, it will get near perfectly lined up with itself, then kick out once you are right on. Raise up, step in the radius of the edge finder, Shift 8 on the handheld, make sure offset number is correct at the top, Shift 1 or 2 to uncheck the axis I don't want to record, enter, move on to the next pin. Using an edge finder lets you step in .001" at a time with a visual reference to get it dialed in. My other method without an edge finder is pinching a piece of paper between a standard tool and the edge of the sheet. Requires a bit more effort.

Video explaining edge finders https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmhBsZOYQbQ.

-Clint-

[Mark McCallum]

Thanks for all the advice guys.
I've always wondered what the teach functions are for.
So I have 2 more things to look into one day, Afl and teach functions.
I'm more cabinet maker and a wanabe CNC machine man.
One day I might just focus on the machining side of things.
Thanks for the links, and tips Clint, I've never seen one of those edge finders.
Ill have to look at the teach area to see if I can get it to work for me.

And Stuart, thanks for your methods and thought as well.
Mark

[Jeremy Schiffer]

If you want to get really in to it with AFL you can write a program to run that will log the date, time, and previous waste board value to a text value, update Machine Variables to the new value, and tie it all to a Custom Action button on the side of the screen. Then you can keep track of value changes through the day with one click and typing numbers in.

That sounds pretty nifty, I'm gonna have to try that. Except, I don't know about a Custom Action button. Is that part of a newer control software, or are you saying to create the Custom Action button with AFL?

Maybe I've just been overlooking it. What a shame, I could have programmed it to make my coffee in the morning.