32 mm Dowel system

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Kirk Newson
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32 mm Dowel system

Postby Kirk Newson » Fri, Dec 01 2006, 9:24AM

I,m kinda new at this computer stuff so Please help me out!
We have just started using our M45 and are trying to use it to replace our manual machines. We have been using dowel construction for 15+ years. Dowels have been a key sales point to many of our customers. So we dont want to tell them, we no longer support dowel construction.

Can anyone tell me if eCabinets can easly be made to support dowel construction?

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DanEpps
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Postby DanEpps » Fri, Dec 01 2006, 10:45AM

If it were me Kirk, I would highlight the fact that a blind dado runs almost the entire length of the part, thus making the joint far stronger than dowels. Show those customers just how much contact area a dowel has in contrast to a blind dado and they will be sold on this \"new\" joinery (actually it is just a new name for mortise and tenon).

Joe Stone
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Postby Joe Stone » Fri, Dec 01 2006, 11:36AM

Kirk,

I agree completely with Dan. Blind dado is the most sound method of box construction so why not promote that instead of taking the approach of attempting to hide from it. Your old methodology lent itself to the use of the dowell and it was the best you could produce at the time. You now have a program and a router that will make this constuction change for you so why not??

If you so choose there are certainly ways to get what you want. If you are the same person I think you are then you can actually produce it on the router with horizontal aggregate tooling. The best way to get some help specifically would be to post a cabinet in the Ecab area with the proper construction seed box you want to start with. There will be many responses to help you throught it with a file to work from.

Joe

PS Dan will probably have it before any one else gets to read it.
Joe Stone

Precision Concept Cutting
http://www.pccmich.com

Michael Kowalczyk
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Postby Michael Kowalczyk » Fri, Dec 01 2006, 6:58PM

Kirk and Joe,

Kirk,
I would suggest just going blind dado like Dan and Joe said. Even with a horizontal aggregate you have to mount your parts on a pod to get clearance for it and then you have to do each part by it self and I do not know if Ecab supports it. I know it can be done but you loose the benefit of nesting.

If you make standards, using the constrain manger, for dowel insertion for your horizontal drilling, you can do these on a separate machine off line while your Thermwood is cutting cabinet parts. I only suggest this side of it as a temp solution for your customers as you wean them off of the dowel :( and onto blind dadoes :D.

Hope this helps,
Michael Kowalczyk, GM

HP-Elite Quad Core Q6700-4 MB ram, Nvidia GeForce 512 MB Dual HP 22" flat panels, Windows 7 ultimate 64bit SP1

Nick M Singer
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Postby Nick M Singer » Sat, Dec 02 2006, 1:04AM

Hi Kirk. I too use dowels and am not entirely sold on the blind dado construction method and I have tested both. Its all a trade off I guess, I found the work flow slower using dados as more maching ops are required on the Thermwood especially when you start doing the flip ops. these also introduce marginal inaccuracies. I also found gluing up and cramping more tricky with the blind dado, the joint holds together better mechanically with dowels (6 per joint) If you do the time in motion study you will find that if you have a multi borer set up just for the drilling of case joints it is quicker or more efficient because it is a task that can be executed whilst the Thermwood machining other components, but with a dado you have to wait for the complete run before you can start machining the other half of the joint.

Mark Hesketh
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Postby Mark Hesketh » Mon, Dec 04 2006, 7:19AM

i gotta agree with Nick. we tried switching over to the blind dado method for a while, but ran into all sorts of small problems. things like the tenon would be made just a little too loose, or the problem where with the blind dadoes you have no ability to cheat on your clamping time. we found that these joints, with particle board, tended to fail far more often than the dowels. And personally, having to deal with flip ops just drives me nust both for the time it takes and for needing a spot to stack all the parts that need to be flipped until you get to them. Also, as Nick said, if you have a doweler, you can get all your dowels inserted while you are still cutting other sheets. i would love to be able to use one machine to do everything, but it just isn't quite there yet for me.

Michael Kowalczyk
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Postby Michael Kowalczyk » Mon, Dec 04 2006, 3:24PM

Mark,
Maybe you are having these issues because of the particle board???
I have not used PBC for over 10 years. We use either VC or MDF core material and rarely have a problem with fitting joints.

As far as flip ops, I engineer the job to have minimal if any. But if you are having a lot of partitions with shelves it may be hard to avoid. especially if they are spec'd from your client. If you are comfortable with dowels that's OK there are more than one way to build a box.

Just don't discount the blind dado joint with out really checking all your options. Just my humble opinion :wink:

thanks,
Michael Kowalczyk, GM

HP-Elite Quad Core Q6700-4 MB ram, Nvidia GeForce 512 MB Dual HP 22" flat panels, Windows 7 ultimate 64bit SP1

Mark Hesketh
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Postby Mark Hesketh » Tue, Dec 05 2006, 8:20AM

just to be clear, i didn't mean that the blind dado option is un-usable or anything. merely that we have encountered problems with it in comparision with our dowel opperations. and there is no way that the bean-counters here would ever move away from particle board. i do love the fact that i don't have to worry about dowel hole placement when using blind dadoes, but the constraint manager helps out alot with that now. either way, you have a few good options in the way of construction methods (but we'll be sticking with dowels for a while :) )


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