New PC Desktop Vs. Workstation

Dave McPherson · Post by **Dave McPherson** » Tue, Feb 20 2007, 1:44PM

Hi Guys,
Sorry, if this is the wrong forum or has been posted. Everyone on here seems very knowledgeable of computers and i need some help. I need to buy a new computer to run e-cabinets and AutoCAD. I was looking on the Dell site and you can not buy a desktop pc with Windows XP. Every desktop comes with Windows Vista. From the advice in the past topics. I want to stick with Windows XP. Under dell workstations i could still get windows XP. I just was not sure if a workstation would work the same. Does anybody know what the difference between a Workstation and Desktop are? Just for an example, i did not see a sound card under the workstation options. Where as a desk top it is listed. I did try and contact Dell but they were not very helpful. Any help or suggestions would be great! I am currently using a Dell Dimension

Thanks,
Dave

DanEpps · Post by **DanEpps** » Tue, Feb 20 2007, 4:09PM

Dave

A workstation IS what you want for eCabinets and AutoCAD. Workstations are better suited for technical programs while desktops are more for general purpose use.

The Dimension is a good general purpose home computer but it lacks the horsepower needed for eCabinets and other technical software.

Gaming systems may have the processing horsepower but their graphics capabilities are geared to games. Games use DirectX graphics and technical programs use OpenGL.

Dave McPherson · Post by **Dave McPherson** » Tue, Feb 20 2007, 4:16PM

Dan, Thanks alot for the advice!
I will go with the workstation

thanks,
Dave

Rick Deskins · Post by **Rick Deskins** » Tue, Feb 20 2007, 4:49PM

DanEpps wrote:Gaming systems may have the processing horsepower but their graphics capabilities are geared to games. Games use DirectX graphics and technical programs use OpenGL.

You must of been reading a microsoft book or something. Maybe if you a MS game company you would use directX whatever, but not all games use directX. OpenGL is common in games as well. The HOOPS api that we use can be used with a openGL or directx as the display driver. Believe it or not, eCabinets 3D graphics are closer to a "game", then to a technical program.

Bottom line, if you spend cheap you get cheap. Bottom price workstation are just as bad as bottom line desktops. Key components to any good eCabinets pc. fast processor( 2ghz or more), 1GB or 2GB of dual channel ram, and a high end gaming or workstation video card (at least 256mb ram, 256-bit memory interface).

DanEpps · Post by **DanEpps** » Tue, Feb 20 2007, 6:04PM

So, everything that has been posted in the past about HOOPS and openGL vs DirectX (by Thermwood folks) is incorrect?

DanEpps · Post by **DanEpps** » Wed, Feb 21 2007, 7:59AM

Before anyone gets the wrong idea from my last response, I do agree with Rick--low end workstations are just as bad as low end gaming or general puopose systems.

The point I meant to question was HOOPS use of DirectX versus OpenGL. Previous discussions on this subject have all said that eCabinets relies on OpenGL, not DirectX. The HOOPS API can certainly accomodate DirectX but eCabinets primitives were written using OpenGL.

Today, probably 95% of Windows games rely on DirectX for 3D graphics. Why? Because DirectX is a Microsoft \"product\" that is tightly integrated within Windows. Most game developers use DirectX because there are more development tools for games that integrate DirectX than there are for OpenGL.

Similarly, most technical software has historically used OpenGL for 3D graphics. HOOPS has APIs for DirectX as well as OpenGL, as do most technical software programs today.

To my knowledge all video cards support both standards--DirectX and OpenGL. The difference is that gaming cards are optimized for DirectX and technical workstation cards are optimized for OpenGL.

Will eCabinets perform well on a gaming system? Most likely yes--as long as it is a high-end system with a high-end video card.

Will eCabinets perform better on a workstation? Not necessarily. If the workstation is comparable to a similar gaming system you probably won't see any difference in performance.

Where you WILL see a difference is between a general purpose system and EITHER a high-end gaming system or a high-end workstation.

Even the best general purpose system will not give the performance of a low-end workstation or gaming system.

Confused still? Sorry.

As Rick said, the bottom line is to not skimp when it comes to buying a computer. Would you buy the cheapest woodworking tools for your shop? You can buy a table saw for $99 but will it stand up to the needs of a production cabinet shop? Not likely and the same holds true for computers.

Michael Yeargain · Post by **Michael Yeargain** » Wed, Feb 21 2007, 6:17PM

So after spending nearly 5 grand for this Dell I am now reading that I bought the wrong one?

DanEpps · Post by **DanEpps** » Wed, Feb 21 2007, 6:34PM

Michael Yeargain wrote:So after spending nearly 5 grand for this Dell I am now reading that I bought the wrong one?

Definitely not Mike!!! Workstations are intended for software like eCabinets or CAD programs, not games. Gaming systems are intended for games, not technical software.

This is not to say that games won't work on a workstation and technical software won't run on gaming systems--just that you won't get the BEST performance that way.

A high-end gaming system will have a similar cost to a high-end workstation, so price isn't the issue here.

The systems to stay away from are the consumer-type computers. If you can buy it in Wal-Mart, Best Buy or Office Depot, it is a general-purpose HOME computer, intended for internet browsing, word processing and storing your family photos.

Jody Wilmes · Post by **Jody Wilmes** » Thu, Feb 22 2007, 4:07PM

Michael Yeargain wrote:So after spending nearly 5 grand for this Dell I am now reading that I bought the wrong one?

I highly doubt you got anything to worry about....but I gotta know, which workstation did you get? Got any specs or a link to it? Congratulations on your purchase

I look forward to seeing some renderings from ya!

Michael Yeargain · Post by **Michael Yeargain** » Mon, Feb 26 2007, 10:39AM

Jody,

I have still run into the problem with memory. Here is a spec for my comp.

Dell Precision PWS490 Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 3.2 Ghz 3.19 Ghz, 3.0GB RAM XP Pro Service pack 2.

I also have a NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 video bios 5.70.02.41.03 PCI xpress x16 512 MB with the downloaded tweak applied

The Page file is set to 4605 MB initial and 9210 MB Max.

I don't know if this Page file affects this system or not I only have 1 drive installed.

Jody Wilmes · Post by **Jody Wilmes** » Mon, Feb 26 2007, 11:02AM

What kind of memory issues are you having? Do you have a scenario?

DanEpps · Post by **DanEpps** » Mon, Feb 26 2007, 11:07AM

Jody

I think it is probably the same issues EVERYONE is having...rendering is extremely slow and a \"Out of Memory\" error occurs often.

Jody Wilmes · Post by **Jody Wilmes** » Mon, Feb 26 2007, 11:09AM

Found the thread where you were talking about memory problems. It looks like you stated you had a job or something we could look at but had no way of attaching it to the thread. Could you e-mail it to me or support? Thanks.

DanEpps · Post by **DanEpps** » Mon, Feb 26 2007, 11:14AM

Jody Wilmes wrote:Found the thread where you were talking about memory problems. It looks like you stated you had a job or something we could look at but had no way of attaching it to the thread. Could you e-mail it to me or support? Thanks.

Who? What thread?

Jody Wilmes · Post by **Jody Wilmes** » Mon, Feb 26 2007, 11:19AM

DanEpps wrote:Jody

I think it is probably the same issues EVERYONE is having...rendering is extremely slow and a "Out of Memory" error occurs often.

Yeah, I realize that now....it's Monday.

I see Dean has gotten to it or is looking into something. We have been looking into this.

Thermwood / eCabinet Systems

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