Re: Bringing Furniture Business to Cabinetmakers

Glenn Warner · Post by **Glenn Warner** » Tue, Jul 03 2012, 9:26AM

This is hot!! I figured you had something major planned to coincide with IWF. I was debating attending this year, but this clinches it. Can't wait for the official announcement and thanks for the advanced notice to forum members. I don't have a machine, but I can see the value and potential for this all along the chain. Lots of questions which I'll save until the announcement. Surprised not more reaction here.

Donald Thomson · Post by **Donald Thomson** » Tue, Jul 03 2012, 10:15AM

I assume those with ShopBot CNC's and ShopBot Link can't become part of this program?

Ken Susnjara · Post by **Ken Susnjara** » Tue, Jul 03 2012, 10:40AM

Thanks for the nice comments. I was also surprised that there were not more comments but your post broke the ice. As for Shop Bot, it is not possible for them to run YouBuild. In fact it is not possible to run it on older Thermwood controls. Its operation requires multiple processors each processing different functions at the same time. Qcore is the first control we have that can do that. This thing is actually pretty sophisticated. Some of the functions and processes are so new and different we have actually applied for patents on them.

Daniel Odom · Post by **Daniel Odom** » Tue, Jul 03 2012, 11:57AM

Interesting news Ken, thanks for sharing.

Bryan Sullivan · Post by **Bryan Sullivan** » Tue, Jul 03 2012, 2:21PM

I just read your post today Ken. YouBuild sounds like it could be promising, a great opportunity for thermwood and its customers. Lack of response could be due to early 4th of July festivities. Keep us posted Ken.

Clint Hart · Post by **Clint Hart** » Tue, Jul 03 2012, 4:41PM

Thank you for the heads up on this, looks very interesting. I did do a little investigating, and checked out the web page and such, first, a little tough accessing the site, need Microsoft Silverlight, no problem, but Firefox doesn't seem to support it, so had to go to IE and don't care for that, but oh well, that's just me. Then once on, I went to the libraries, had to get creative with the zip code, no support for Canada as of yet. Then had to add another plugin to try access one of the designs and view it in 3D, installed it, got a black screen only. Seems there might be some bugs, that won't impress customers, maybe it's something I am doing wrong, but not a good first impression for me, but I am still very interested in this opportunity. Don't want to sound all negative and stuff, and maybe this isn't the place to post this, but if anyone has any suggestions, I'm very open to advice

Thanks again for the info. Maybe this may help you out also, if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Ken Susnjara · Post by **Ken Susnjara** » Tue, Jul 03 2012, 5:59PM

We'll have to look into why you can't get the 3D thing working. That app is a but touchy but is GREAT when it is working. If you don't mind our folks may contact you to see if we can sort this out. The other software is the only way to do the things we need to do right now. A lot of what is going on behind the scenes is not normal for the web today and we are pushing the envalope a bit. I am comfortable our folks will be able to get this over time. As for Canada, YouBuild will not be available there at the beginning. It is the first non-US country we plan to address but there are some sticky rules and laws for doing business in Canada and we need to address all of that. The technology to make it work is in place but the legal requirements are another story.

Clint Hart · Post by **Clint Hart** » Tue, Jul 03 2012, 6:18PM

By all means, have them contact me Ken, thanks for the quick reply, I will help as much as I can for as long as it takes, I have seen the effort that has gone into this. I totally understand the slow adoption to Canada's market, the laws are a bit crazy at time...gotta love "free trade" huh??

Rob Davis · Post by **Rob Davis** » Tue, Jul 03 2012, 8:51PM

Ken, got my email today and signed up immediately. I think this could be a way to improve our business and hope we can learn more and maybe become a center. Thanks for including Thermwood owners in the process. Made in America!
Happy Independnece Day, and let's fight for our independence this year!
Rob

Rick Deskins · Post by **Rick Deskins** » Tue, Jul 03 2012, 9:19PM

view it in 3D, installed it, got a black screen only.

We are still looking into a fix for this problem.
I have seen this with certain nvidia video cards. We have gotten around it by:

1. Go to the nvidia control panel
2. Selecting Manage 3D Settings
3. Select Program Settings
4. Add iexplore.exe
32-bit - C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe
64-bit - C:\Program Files (x86)\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe
5. Set Antialasing - Mode from Application Controlled to OFF
6. Set Antialasing - Setting from Application Controlled to OFF
7. Set Antialasing - Filtering from Application Controlled to OFF

need Microsoft Silverlight, no problem, but Firefox doesn't seem to support it,

Silverlight does work with FireFox and Google Chrome.
For Mozilla Firefox users:
Save Silverlight.exe to your hard disk. Once the download is finished, click Open. The installation starts.
http://www.microsoft.com/getsilverlight ... fault.aspx

The only thing that does require IE is the View 3D feature. The 3D feature uses a ActiveX custom HOOPS control.

Scott Marshburn · Post by **Scott Marshburn** » Wed, Jul 04 2012, 12:45PM

"I have designs of my own that I would like to include in YouBuild, is this possible?
A. Perhaps. We are always looking for new, novel and proven product designs to add to the program. You are encouraged to submit your designs for consideration, provided they have actually been machined on a Thermwood CNC router and built. If we feel there is a market for your design, we will develop the necessary support documentation and add it to the program. You will then receive a design fee each time the product is ordered anywhere in the network."
My question is Where and to who would someone submit there designs? Also how would the amount of the design fee be determined?"

Clint Hart · Post by **Clint Hart** » Wed, Jul 04 2012, 3:41PM

We are still looking into a fix for this problem.
I have seen this with certain nvidia video cards. We have gotten around it by:

1. Go to the nvidia control panel - DID THIS
2. Selecting Manage 3D Settings - DID THIS
3. Select Program Settings - DID THIS
4. Add iexplore.exea
32-bit - C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe
64-bit - C:\Program Files (x86)\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe - DID THIS (WINDOWS 7 HOME)
5. Set Antialasing - Mode from Application Controlled to OFF - DOESN'T HAVE THE "OFF" OPTION
6. Set Antialasing - Setting from Application Controlled to OFF - GREYED OUT, DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THIS
7. Set Antialasing - Filtering from Application Controlled to OFF - BY CHANCE DO YOU MEAN "ANISOTROPIC FILTERING"?

need Microsoft Silverlight, no problem, but Firefox doesn't seem to support it,

Silverlight does work with FireFox and Google Chrome.
For Mozilla Firefox users:
Save Silverlight.exe to your hard disk. Once the download is finished, click Open. The installation starts.
http://www.microsoft.com/getsilverlight ... fault.aspx

The only thing that does require IE is the View 3D feature. The 3D feature uses a ActiveX custom HOOPS control.[/quote] - SO GETTING IT TO WORK IN FIREFOX IS MOOT POINT ANYWAY, WANT TO VIEW IN 3D

With the above changes, I still get the black screen, I'll wait until you may find a fix for this for the masses, as Ken pointed out, it's not available in Canada anyway. Thanks for your help and Happy Independence Day to all of you and your families.

Josh Rayburn · Post by **Josh Rayburn** » Thu, Jul 05 2012, 10:48AM

I have a couple questions after doing some reading up on the requirements, etc.
1. Can off-fall be added and used?
2. How does one handle re-cuts of a damaged part?
3. What are the drawer slides made out of? Are there no "side mount ball bearing" slides available?
Thanks!
jnr

Ken Susnjara · Post by **Ken Susnjara** » Thu, Jul 05 2012, 5:18PM

I’ll do my best to address these areas although some detail might vary slightly. As for all-fall, since there are a limited number of materials used, the system automatically remembers any significant all-fall and nests on it the next time the material is used. The system tells you when and how to load it on the next job. As long as we are talking about material, there are some aspects to material and pricing that generally protect you. In the pricing formula, material is sold in increments and each Cut Center can decide what increment they want to sell material in. The choices are quarter sheet, half sheet and full sheet. This determines the increment that a customer is charged for material. If you select quarter sheet, any number of parts on a sheet, up to 25% of the sheet area will charge the customer for a quarter sheet. Anything over 25% up to 50% they are charged for a half sheet, etc. If you select a half sheet increment, anything from one part to 50% of the sheet surface is charged for a half sheet. Anything over that is charged a full sheet. This approach generally assures you that even with re-cuts, you will fully cover material cost.
As for re-cuts, at the end of each job the system will ask if there are any parts to be re-cut. If there are you scan the label for those parts and they are nested on any material left on the table and then added to a new sheet. Should you say no but then damage a part later, you can easily add it at the end of the next job that uses this same material. The label for these remake parts is highlighted so you know immediately it is for a different job. Also, you won’t be able to print shipping labels for a job if there are any parts to be remade. This whole area has been well thought out and works well.
Most furniture and closets use “slot slides”. In this approach, the ¾ inch thick drawer bottom extends out both sides and ride in slots machined into the case sides. Tolerances here are pretty tight and it works quite well. With a little paste wax, the slide action is quite smooth, much better than most furniture slides. We have developed a rather simple system to act as a drawer stop so you can’t pull the drawers all the way out by mistake (a pin and up-side-down piece of aluminum channel), which is better than most furniture. This approach works well, is inexpensive and allows you to adjust depth of items without having to worry about the length of a drawer slide. This is a great system for furniture and cabinets that are not used a lot, closets or garage cabinets for example. For kitchen cabinets, we will need to use standard depths and hardware slides. We really don’t have kitchen cabinets in the system yet but have some really great ideas when we finally add them. Most folks we are dealing with are already successfully building kitchen cabinets and we are not trying to replace that but instead expand their business into new areas.

Ray Jorgensen · Post by **Ray Jorgensen** » Fri, Jul 06 2012, 4:17PM

Most folks we are dealing with are already successfully building kitchen cabinets and we are not trying to replace that but instead expand their business into new areas.

I appreciate what you are saying here, but. I don't see adding kitchen cabinets as replacing what I'm doing, it would expand my market because I don't currenty offer knock down cabinets. Even if I did, I wouldn't have the marketing scope that this program could provide. My vote is - get a basic kitchen with slab doors on line. Expand as time goes on but get the basic up ASAP. From what I've seen in the librarys there are base and wall cabinets, already tucked here and there, just group those cabinets in a kitchen library.

To fledge out kitchens will take some work - main one I see is door styles - and how to handle that. Simplest to me is to have a check mark to say with or without doors. If it's marked not to include doors we would either make or buy them to suit the customer.

I view this program as possibly a great potiential for increased business, but I do have questions yet which I'm sure will be answered over time. I have signed up.

Just my 2 cents worth

Thermwood / eCabinet Systems