Beaded Face Frames with Inset Doors

Kerry Fullington · Post by **Kerry Fullington** » Sat, Nov 11 2006, 7:34AM

Dan,
I think you have it , but I think you would only do the haunch cut the depth of whatever bead detail you are using. That way it looks like you just added a beaded molding. The procedure would be the same though.

This would work for the guys needing cut lists for mortise and tenon joints also. It won't give placement of the mortise and shoulder info etc. but it would give correct lengths for all the face frame parts.

Kerry

DanEpps · Post by **DanEpps** » Sat, Nov 11 2006, 7:54AM

Well I have to admit--I only spent about two or three minutes doing that and even less thinking about it.

Same thing with the doors Rick--I just grabbed one with a decent raise and stuck it in the opening.

If I were actually going to build this I might spend a whole ten minutes on it

. Just kidding of course, but we ARE trying to show Gordon what CAN be done with eCabinets and with imagination and input from this forum (like you guys provided) anything is possible.

Rick Palechuk · Post by **Rick Palechuk** » Sat, Nov 11 2006, 9:28AM

That's the beauty of the software, the ability to sidestep problems in design. The key thing thou is to stay open minded and think outside the box. Plus the ability to tap into thousands of minds on this forum.......It's a good thing Gordon.

DanEpps · Post by **DanEpps** » Sat, Nov 11 2006, 10:30AM

Rick Palechuk wrote:That's the beauty of the software, the ability to sidestep problems in design. The key thing thou is to stay open minded and think outside the box. Plus the ability to tap into thousands of minds on this forum.......It's a good thing Gordon.

Bingo Rick, that's exactly what I mean by "use common parts in uncommon ways."

I like the way you put it about being able to "...tap into thousands of minds on this forum..." In my opinion there is no better forum on the internet--on any subject. You will never find so many members so willing to share information to help others and answering posts as quickly as on this forum.

Questions that have more than one answer will get numerous replies and you can select the method that best suits your preferences.

Oh, I almost forgot...you can ALWAYS get free opinions here too!

Mike Seisser · Post by **Mike Seisser** » Sat, Nov 11 2006, 5:23PM

Y' all mean like this?

Funny thing, I was in a meeting with my regular millwork supplier around the time of Gordon's original post. I've been wooing them to produce a higher end version of the built-ins that most of their builder & homeowner clients have produced on site, with quicker turnaround and virtually as many options as the custom cabinet suppliers they currently use for NON built-ins. One of the main concerns of this company was options, and in particular beaded faceframes. (This millwork company also just started up a cabinet division, reselling different high end lines with their own name stamped on them -- my company is in line to sub-contract installs.)

So I was about to begin what I thought would be a P.I.T.A. process to achieve not only the look for the drawings which I'll have to produce, but also a usable file to have machined somewhere, or at the VERY least an accurate cut list. It took me all of (as Dan Epps said) 10 minutes. The tool took about 30 seconds, drawing the path for Part Editor to follow with said tool took about 30 seconds for each rail and stile, add a few minutes to figure out that path numerically and play with the Part Editor until it chose the path correctly, load the cab, load a door, put the saved cab in a room and render it, type this up, etc..... 10 minutes.

I wonder if beaded faceframes are something that the developers would consider as a feature? The reason I ask, other than the obvious, is, it seems like a very cut and dry process (software wise) to achieve it. For instance... an input box to determine the inset value which would automatically extend the top and bottom rail dimensions as well as reshape the stiles for the cuts, then pick a profile from a predetermined list OR have the option to create one using the Shape Manager.

eCabs....limited only to our own imagination....

Mike

BTW I can't count how many 'custom' cabinet lines out there don't actually produce beaded faceframes. They use a 3/4\"x1/4\" moulding pin nailed or glued to the rails and stiles. What does that mean? Jack squat, 'cept for the fact that y'all could just make the lil moulding in the part editor and apply it to the face frames, associate to the cabinet, etc....etc....etc.

Kerry Fullington · Post by **Kerry Fullington** » Sat, Nov 11 2006, 6:37PM

Mike,
That is a very nice look. Showing graphically correct mid stiles and rails could get a bit time consuming though.
Kerry

DanEpps · Post by **DanEpps** » Sat, Nov 11 2006, 7:12PM

At least your 10 minute design turned out something better than my 2 or 3 minute design did. That's why I would spend a full 10 minutes if I was actually going to use the design fo something.

Michael Rice · Post by **Michael Rice** » Sat, Nov 11 2006, 7:48PM

I've made a lot of cabinets with inset doors, and beaded face frames. But I make the bead as a separate moulding and then apply it to the face frames as Mike suggested. So, to you guys that actually use beaded face frames, how do you cut in the mid rails and stiles ? Looks like it would be a dificult cut unless you had a machine that made the cut. And what about sanding, how do you keep a sander from messing up the bead? My rails and stiles are completely sanded and ready for finish before I apply the bead. Applying the bead is hassle and I'm open to a better way.

Mike

Mike Seisser · Post by **Mike Seisser** » Sat, Nov 11 2006, 8:07PM

Kerry,

You couldn't be more correct! This one took 30 minutes, although I'll admit 10 minutes of that was trying to add doors and the drawer front in the Cabinet Editor. I eventually had to add them in Custom Layout.

For some strange reason, even though I've never so much as clicked on the Constraint Manager icon, after I added the doors and drawerfront in the Cabinet Editor and clicked on 'Main' so I could save the cabinet, it always crapped out and 'reverted' while trying to reapply constraints! Is this a known problem? The funny thing is, I even backed out of the software, rebooted, started clean and loaded the cabinet with the faceframes already beaded and tried to add the doors/drawerfront. Same thing every time; when I click on the 'Main' icon to return from adding the doors/drawerfront it starts 'reassembling' the cabinet and stops while 'reapplying constraints' (even though I haven't touched the Constraint Manager').

Pretty annoying.

BTW, I've already started an Excel Worksheet to do the math for numerical input on the paths/cutouts for the beading process - I like to work with absolutes instead of drawing paths by hand. So timewise it won't be TOO bad, but I still would like to see this whole thing automated and added as a feature.

Mike

Kerry Fullington · Post by **Kerry Fullington** » Sat, Nov 11 2006, 8:10PM

Mike,
Very nice work. I hope Gordon gets to see that.

Michael,
Here is a link to one of the notching machines.
Notching machine
and here is a link to a couple of shop built jigs to do the same job
Shop Built Notching Jigs
Kerry

Joseph Fusco · Post by **Joseph Fusco** » Sat, Nov 11 2006, 10:22PM

This seemed like a simple thing to do. I thought you could just adjust the door and drawer overlaps to say -1/8” and set the door and drawer insets to ¾” and you should have what you needed. . .

Well, as long as I leave the door and drawer inset to 0 the doors and drawers shrink correctly, but as soon as I set the insets to ¾ the doors and drawers grow by the minus overlap amounts. Anyone else have this problem?

gordonjackson · Post by **gordonjackson** » Mon, Nov 13 2006, 1:06PM

Awsome work Mike. That is exactly what I was looking for. We are currently using applied moulding. If it leeps up we are going to buy the Hoffman manual notcher.

BillHightower · Post by **BillHightower** » Mon, Nov 13 2006, 2:03PM

OK Kerry. Based on your circle jig I don't think you are using that commercial bead machine.

I mill the bead in the stile and rails then miter the bead and remove the area of the bead where the rail will join it on both ends of the stiles with a small dovetail saw. I miter the bead on the rails with a xacto knife. Not very sophisticated but it looks great and works fine.

Bill Hightower

Leo Graywacz · Post by **Leo Graywacz** » Sat, Oct 23 2010, 9:27PM

I played with this a bit. Dan, why such a big haunch? It should just be the size of the bead and nearly invisible.

Yes, I know the thread is ancient, but I needed a beaded FF and this is what search produced.

I don't know if anyone had made a different try at it, but here is mine.

Dennis Englert · Post by **Dennis Englert** » Mon, Oct 25 2010, 7:40AM

Yes, you can make a haunched face frame with a bead (bead not rope profile) using the Part Editor and Constraint Manager. The bead profile is created by a profile developed in the shape manager. I experimented with that construction method or look around three years ago. It is a little tedious and does takes some planning and experimentation. Once a plan is developed it should be relatively quick to develop this type of face frame. Bear in mind that it's not just a click of a single button to add this type of construction or the bead. Each joint or intersection, male and female are drawn individually. Note tha the geometry for each of the various haunch cuts can be saved to a file and used as a template for additional cuts and the 45 degree corners are simply applied with a Chamfer command.

Thanks,

Dennis

Thermwood / eCabinet Systems

Beaded Face Frames with Inset Doors

Re:

Re: Beaded Face Frames with Inset Doors

Re: Beaded Face Frames with Inset Doors