Making GLASS panel slab doors

[Stuart Douglas]

Our bread and butter is institutional PL cabinets with slab doors. In the past when a glass panel door was called out, I'd fab a rabbeted frame in the traditional manner, using solid poplar 1x core, running vinyl edge banding on the inside edge of my frame parts before cutting the cope and stick lap joinery, and a few pins and glue would secure the joints. Then I'd apply my PL to both sides, and trim rout the waste from the "panel" area, run the outside edges thru the edgebander, and voila, a door that is time consuming to build but is strong and has the correct finishes (don't forget the slot for that rubbery glass retainer) on all the inside and outside edges.

I'd like to build a slab door from medex, with pl both faces and a single rabbet for letting in the glass on the back, to be secured with adhesive. I'd like it to be parametric to the applied cabinet, and receive any appropriate lock or pull options just like a regular door. It will require a flip-op if designed like I think eCabS wants it to be, but if I can somehow force it to cut (and correctly dialog in CN) all ops from the back, that would b e preferable.

I've started in the door designer with a custom slab door, but I can't seem to get this right. Anyone been doing this yet in eCabS? TIA!

[Mark McCallum]

Hi Stuart.
So the way I interpret what you need is a rebate to the back of a standard flat door? What I call a pre-finished double sided melamine board, and I think what you refer to as PL is plastic Laminate which is the same thing.

Do you need the slot as in your picture of the profile tools? or just the rebate? The slot is beyond my capabilities, (Its something that I would be interested in knowing if it could be done as a cutpath attachment in the constraints manager area)
But.
If I was doing it, I wouldn't bother with putting a profile edge to the inner edge, I would just do them as pockets and let control nesting cut them when it is doing the hinge holes.
I have done a little video showing how I would do it in the door designer.


However, I seemed to have turned up a bug and it wont save properly and be applied to a cabinet the way it should.
If any one would like to see if its just me, or get it to reproduce the error messages maybe we'll let Clint know

https://youtu.be/lGLx9kkFviE

I have attached a cabinet with a door that has been constrained the same way as if it was done in the door designer.
It has no problem keeping the constraints.

This will work the same way as if you used the door designer, you just need to constrain every door and make libraries when you do it this way.

I have probably misinterpreted what you mean, (Perhaps upload a jpeg of a cross section of what you need) but I hope this helps.

Mark

[Stuart Douglas]

Mark, You're moving me forward! I don't know why I got to thinking it had to be a "MDF" door, but the slab is much simpler! As usual, I'm over thinking it, and when I stumble, I look for a different solution.

I had tried to constrain a slab door, but changed direction when I couldn't get the constraints to work. Then, while watching your video, I realized I was trying to constrain an edge (the rabbet, to the through cut) to another constrained edge, and it was not working. I'm a dummy, because you need to (obviously, ) make your reference anchors on the door edges, not the rabbet edges. BINGO, slab works.

I haven't solved the flip op preference, but that might be a battle for another day. We bore our hinges on the blum minipress, so I was hopeing to cut this from the back only, but keep all the hinge and pull info indexed correctly. Probably a tall order...

Thanks!

[Mark McCallum]

Hey Stuart.
Don't beat yourself up.

Ecabs is one complicated program.

We all work in our own little silo's and the way we do things tends to be because it worked for that thing last time and we just keep doing it that way.
The flexibility that Ecabs offers allows us to approach the same outcome from a few different angles.
As I have learnt more about eCabs we have changed the way we do things.

That is why I like the forum.
It gives you an opportunity to swap ideas and techniques and work out if its me just thinking random or others have different ways to do something.

I have learnt so much from the guys that have helped over the years.
I could name names but for every one name I could mention, I will have missed 2 more.

I'm a dummy, because you need to (obviously, ) make your reference anchors on the door edges, not the rabbet edges. BINGO, slab works.

Well. I would disagree with that.

Sometimes, don't ask me why, the geometry will kind of float with the edges. Over constraining sometimes will cause the problems. It can be a trial and error thing to see what works. There are probably rules, but I use trial and error because I cant find the rules.

Did you noticed that you can select Cabinet front view and Cabinet back view for the part in the part editor?
That selects which face the geometry gets placed on or copied from in the part editor / contour area and consequently how it goes to the CNC router.
I find this useful for creating edges of geometry in the contour area.

I'm still refining my techniques so by no means an expert.
If you haven't got the part editor / contour editor in your head yet. I suggest to play around with swapping back and forth in the contour part editor area a bit as it is a very useful area once you get the hang of it.

You might already have it sorted but try putting an off center pocket on the front of a left door or end, then, go to contour, right click, create contour, come back to part editor, change view to back view. See how you can now swap the geometry?
You can now reuse that contour, by swapping it to a right hand door or end by saving and reloading that contour, from the contour area with a new part selected.

so I was hoping to cut this from the back only, but keep all the hinge and pull info indexed correctly. Probably a tall order...

I am almost certain if I understand you correctly that this should not be a problem.
You can designate A and B sides and also as above front and back view.

Our edger is a simple unit about 8 years old (I think edgers are more finicky than CNC's) but we put a modification on so we can run hinge bored doors through it.

I personally am of the view that if I paid all this money for a CNC, why the heck do we have to pick up a piece and do ancillary operations that can be done on the machine.

Its so quick to do it on the machine, every thing just lines up. It eliminates human error. Machining time is negligible compared with re picking up the door putting it on the borer, bore holes, put on trolley or walking back to hang the door. We just keep hinges at the assembly benches or batch hinge them on a soft table. Just so much quicker in my opinion.
One of the last things I do (if I remember) is before I save a cabinet in Ecabs, wire frame the door and check shelf and hinge placement,
Our hinge borer is presently covered in dust and rarely gets used.

Any way, following our discussion, I think I will pose a question to Clint about the constraining of doors in a new thread.
But not at the moment because I have work to do.
Hope this helps


Mark

[Stuart Douglas]

I don't often use the door/front designer, but am familiar with the part editor. I know that you can spec "a" and "b" sides, but unless the material is "double sided" (mine is not) the outline cut seems to always cut after A flip op. I'll keep at it, I like to learn new things. Thankfully, I am the sole operator, so keeping these details straight from the office to the machine are easy, but I can certainly imagine a day where I'm feeding the machine and another operator. I'll keep at it, and I appreciate all the help keeping me on my toes.

[Stuart Douglas]

Interesting to note:
The part editor and constraint manager buttons don't always show up in the door/drawer-front designer pop-up window! They are conspicuously missing in the pop-up when any screen other than a blank "Cabinet/Assembly Editor" screen is displayed. That may have led my initial efforts to be directed at the "MDF" design template, instead of the slab door.

[Clint Buechlein]

Interesting to note:
The part editor and constraint manager buttons don't always show up in the door/drawer-front designer pop-up window! They are conspicuously missing in the pop-up when any screen other than a blank "Cabinet/Assembly Editor" screen is displayed. That may have led my initial efforts to be directed at the "MDF" design template, instead of the slab door.

Stuart,

This is by design. The Part Editor code itself lives in the Cabinet Editor for cabinet parts. This is why the drawer box designer is on the second tool bar and you have to be in the Cabinet Editor to design the boxes. We muddled around what to do when Part Editor was added to doors, and ultimately it was decided to leave the icon where it is so all other doors could be designed or modified outside of the Cabinet Editor. The other option would have been to move the Door/Drawer Designer to second toolbar and only accessible in Cabinet Editor.

Also, this is noted in help manual if you are curious. Both in the What's New section and the section about Door/Drawer Designer. If you don't, any time you install a new version of eCabinets, I encourage everyone as their first step after opening the software is to check the What's New section. This will tell you what is new to eCabinets, and any critical information about it. You won't get a step by step of how to use it, but at least you are pointed in a direction.

-Clint-