I have always marveled at your amazing renderings. I know that placing the lighting is key. Could you post a rendering or a custom layout Jpeg with all the light showing? I cant figure out if you are using a lot of lights close to the cabinets at low intensity, or far away, or both. If you could use one of your kitchens as an example I would apreciate it. That is what gives me the most trouble. Any comentary would also be apreciated.
I do not want to exclude any of you other rendering gurus out there. The more help we can get the better.
Thank you,
Mike
A request for Kerry
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Kerry Fullington
- Wizard Member
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Mon, May 09 2005, 7:33PM
- Company Name: Double E Cabinets
- Country: UNITED STATES
- Location: Amarillo, TX
Mike,
My suggestion for lighting has always been \"less is more\". Use as few lights at as low an intensity as you can. Too many lights and too high an intensity was out all of the detail. Think of where you want hot spots and shadows and place lighting to create those. Use different intensities no your lights as well as adjust light fixture placement from the floor to create the look you want. I usually perform my renders a little dark which really brings our the details then use the contrast, brightness and gamma controls in Irfanview to \"lighten\" the image.
One of the most important things is to give every texture in your render \"shine\". a value of 2 to 3 for floors and walls and up to a value of 4 for cabinet parts. For my cabinets I use different textures for the sheet goods, face frames, doors, and moldings. They can be similar textures but if you have slightly different textures it adds contrast and you can give them different shine values which really helps in the final view. For example I give moldings a shine of 4 which makes them reflect more and really stand out and show their details.
Light placement is experimental. If you have a hot spot on a wall or the textures are washed out, move the light away from that wall and lower the brightness.
Smaller rooms are harder to light and require more fixtures because you have to light all of the tight nooks and crannies. My rule for more fixtures is to lower the brightness for every fixture you add.
Another tip is to use wall and floor textures that ad color and contrast. Forget about the customers room, use textures that make your boxes look good.
One final thing. Add all of the details. Cut profiles on your counter tops. Cut profiles or add moldings to the bottom of your cabinets. cut profiles on the corners of your open end cabinets. Put in all of the plants, chairs and wall hangings that you can. These things are what make the final render impressive.
If you really want to go all out take your final views into PhotoShop or something similar and add Gaussian blur to create a haze and further improve your lighting.
This small room took six light fixtures to create the effect. A larger room can be lit with three fixtures.
Here is the placement of the light fixtures.
Kerry
My suggestion for lighting has always been \"less is more\". Use as few lights at as low an intensity as you can. Too many lights and too high an intensity was out all of the detail. Think of where you want hot spots and shadows and place lighting to create those. Use different intensities no your lights as well as adjust light fixture placement from the floor to create the look you want. I usually perform my renders a little dark which really brings our the details then use the contrast, brightness and gamma controls in Irfanview to \"lighten\" the image.
One of the most important things is to give every texture in your render \"shine\". a value of 2 to 3 for floors and walls and up to a value of 4 for cabinet parts. For my cabinets I use different textures for the sheet goods, face frames, doors, and moldings. They can be similar textures but if you have slightly different textures it adds contrast and you can give them different shine values which really helps in the final view. For example I give moldings a shine of 4 which makes them reflect more and really stand out and show their details.
Light placement is experimental. If you have a hot spot on a wall or the textures are washed out, move the light away from that wall and lower the brightness.
Smaller rooms are harder to light and require more fixtures because you have to light all of the tight nooks and crannies. My rule for more fixtures is to lower the brightness for every fixture you add.
Another tip is to use wall and floor textures that ad color and contrast. Forget about the customers room, use textures that make your boxes look good.
One final thing. Add all of the details. Cut profiles on your counter tops. Cut profiles or add moldings to the bottom of your cabinets. cut profiles on the corners of your open end cabinets. Put in all of the plants, chairs and wall hangings that you can. These things are what make the final render impressive.
If you really want to go all out take your final views into PhotoShop or something similar and add Gaussian blur to create a haze and further improve your lighting.
This small room took six light fixtures to create the effect. A larger room can be lit with three fixtures.
Here is the placement of the light fixtures.
Kerry
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Al Navas
- eCabinets Beta Tester
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Fri, Feb 17 2006, 5:22AM
- Location: Near St Joseph, Missouri, USA
- Contact:
Kerry,
Thank you very much for this terrific tutorial - I will strive to heed your advice !
I hope Mike won't think I am hijacking this thread, but your images bring up a very good point, related to the number of pulls you used in this room. With so many pulls, I wonder if you had any computer memory problems when working with this room? Did you work with this room in the LDE at all? If you did, did you experience any (computer) memory problems?
The reason for my question:
In a recent thread, Wayne was getting a hoops error (unable to save) when taking the room to the LDE. He posted the room, I downloaded it, was able to reproduce the error, and found that by removing the pulls I was able to save the job and continue work in the LDE. However, I did not try to remove the pulls on one cabinet at a time, to determine the point at which memory is not an issue any more; I simply removed them all.
Thanks for your feedback and insights on this issue.
Al
Thank you very much for this terrific tutorial - I will strive to heed your advice !
I hope Mike won't think I am hijacking this thread, but your images bring up a very good point, related to the number of pulls you used in this room. With so many pulls, I wonder if you had any computer memory problems when working with this room? Did you work with this room in the LDE at all? If you did, did you experience any (computer) memory problems?
The reason for my question:
In a recent thread, Wayne was getting a hoops error (unable to save) when taking the room to the LDE. He posted the room, I downloaded it, was able to reproduce the error, and found that by removing the pulls I was able to save the job and continue work in the LDE. However, I did not try to remove the pulls on one cabinet at a time, to determine the point at which memory is not an issue any more; I simply removed them all.
Thanks for your feedback and insights on this issue.
Al
Last edited by Al Navas on Fri, Jul 27 2007, 5:09PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Kerry Fullington
- Wizard Member
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Mon, May 09 2005, 7:33PM
- Company Name: Double E Cabinets
- Country: UNITED STATES
- Location: Amarillo, TX
Al,
I am in the habit of saving jobs incrementally. This means that I may have several version of the same job at various stages. I save each job just before I add all of the decorative stuff and that is my working drawing. That is what I use to nest and get cutlists and take to the Line Drawing editor if necessary. I then continue on and add all the pulls lights and other decorations and use that drawing just for presentation drawings. This way if I go too far and the job crashes I haven't lost all of the important info I need to build the job. This final \"Display\" drawing is what you are seeing in this post.
By doing this my \"Working\" drawings aren't cluttered with stuff that will slow the computer down.
Kerry
I am in the habit of saving jobs incrementally. This means that I may have several version of the same job at various stages. I save each job just before I add all of the decorative stuff and that is my working drawing. That is what I use to nest and get cutlists and take to the Line Drawing editor if necessary. I then continue on and add all the pulls lights and other decorations and use that drawing just for presentation drawings. This way if I go too far and the job crashes I haven't lost all of the important info I need to build the job. This final \"Display\" drawing is what you are seeing in this post.
By doing this my \"Working\" drawings aren't cluttered with stuff that will slow the computer down.
Kerry
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Al Navas
- eCabinets Beta Tester
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Fri, Feb 17 2006, 5:22AM
- Location: Near St Joseph, Missouri, USA
- Contact:
Re:
Kerry Fullington wrote:Al,
I am in the habit of saving jobs incrementally. This means that I may have several version of the same job at various stages. I save each job just before I add all of the decorative stuff and that is my working drawing. That is what I use to nest and get cutlists and take to the Line Drawing editor if necessary...
Kerry,
I must remember to keep doing this. I wondered at times if I was wasting time saving jobs this way. You have confirmed this is the proper way of doing it. I ended up with 9 different versions of a recent job, saved as <filename>-1.esj, <filename>-2.esj , etc.
Excellent advice, Kerry. Thanks for sharing these great tips !!!Kerry Fullington wrote:... I then continue on and add all the pulls lights and other decorations and use that drawing just for presentation drawings. This way if I go too far and the job crashes I haven't lost all of the important info I need to build the job. This final "Display" drawing is what you are seeing in this post.
By doing this my "Working" drawings aren't cluttered with stuff that will slow the computer down.
Kerry
Al
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Michael Yeargain
- eCabinets Beta Tester
- Posts: 1740
- Joined: Tue, May 17 2005, 8:33PM
- Company Name: Timeless Cabinetry and Mantles
- Location: South East
I don't know if you really notice it or not but, the light above the peninsula is positioned lower than the others.
Kerry said it best \"adjust light fixture placement\" this also means the height. Height is as equally important. It will effect the rendering a great deal.
Kerry said it best \"adjust light fixture placement\" this also means the height. Height is as equally important. It will effect the rendering a great deal.
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Thank you kerry,
I was taking the wrong approach. I have been using a lot of lights and spend hours messing with the intensity. I also never use such high shine values; at 2 counter tops look pretty shiny, realistic I'd say.
If I understand correctly you are underlighting the images, using a lot of \"shine\", then you take the Jpeg into Infranview and lighten the image while keeping the contrast. I do have PhotoShop Elements to work with as well. What intensity are the lights set to in the kitchen you posted?
Thank you again,
Mike
I was taking the wrong approach. I have been using a lot of lights and spend hours messing with the intensity. I also never use such high shine values; at 2 counter tops look pretty shiny, realistic I'd say.
If I understand correctly you are underlighting the images, using a lot of \"shine\", then you take the Jpeg into Infranview and lighten the image while keeping the contrast. I do have PhotoShop Elements to work with as well. What intensity are the lights set to in the kitchen you posted?
Thank you again,
Mike
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Kerry Fullington
- Wizard Member
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Mon, May 09 2005, 7:33PM
- Company Name: Double E Cabinets
- Country: UNITED STATES
- Location: Amarillo, TX
Mike,
Here are the values I used.
These makes a pretty dark image so I took all of the renderings into Irfanview and gave them a Gamma correction of around 1.25 to 1.35.
Gamma correction is my favorite tool for correcting lighting.
A value of 2 shouldn't be much shine. Make sure you are entering a shine value of 2 in the pop up dialogue box at the bottom of the screen and then using right click \"Use Dialogue Settings\" to set the value. If you are using the values in the right click menu then you can only do values in increments of 10.
Kerry
Here are the values I used.
These makes a pretty dark image so I took all of the renderings into Irfanview and gave them a Gamma correction of around 1.25 to 1.35.
Gamma correction is my favorite tool for correcting lighting.
A value of 2 shouldn't be much shine. Make sure you are entering a shine value of 2 in the pop up dialogue box at the bottom of the screen and then using right click \"Use Dialogue Settings\" to set the value. If you are using the values in the right click menu then you can only do values in increments of 10.
Kerry
Thank you kerry,
I really apreciate your help. You are right I some how set the countertops to 10, which looks good in my renderings. I've bumped the doors and f-frames to 7 and simplified the lighting.
I followed your recomendation and added .5 gausian blurr in PS Elements. A little goes a long way. This effect adds a tremendous amount of realism for some reason.
I could not find the gama corection dialogue in Infran View. But I did under light and then used contrast and lighting corrections in PS Elements. It is amazing how adding lights adds so much light compaired to increasing the intensity.......... Did that make sense?
Another question..... Is there any difference in the focus or directional lighting qualities of the different lighting fixtures? or are they all the same?
Your advice has made a huge difference in the quality of my renderings already!
Thank you for shareing your knowledge,
Mike
I really apreciate your help. You are right I some how set the countertops to 10, which looks good in my renderings. I've bumped the doors and f-frames to 7 and simplified the lighting.
I followed your recomendation and added .5 gausian blurr in PS Elements. A little goes a long way. This effect adds a tremendous amount of realism for some reason.
I could not find the gama corection dialogue in Infran View. But I did under light and then used contrast and lighting corrections in PS Elements. It is amazing how adding lights adds so much light compaired to increasing the intensity.......... Did that make sense?
Another question..... Is there any difference in the focus or directional lighting qualities of the different lighting fixtures? or are they all the same?
Your advice has made a huge difference in the quality of my renderings already!
Thank you for shareing your knowledge,
Mike
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Kerry Fullington
- Wizard Member
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Mon, May 09 2005, 7:33PM
- Company Name: Double E Cabinets
- Country: UNITED STATES
- Location: Amarillo, TX
Mike,
To find the Gamma Correction in Irfanview click on 'Image\" then choose \"Enhance Colors\" from the drop down menu and there you will find several controls including gamma correction. It works pretty good. If you like the controls in PhotoShop Elements use them. They all do pretty much the same thing. PhotoShop also has some 3D lighting effects that can add a lot. You just have to play with them. They will get you your spot effects etc.
I am not sure about the lights in eCabinets. It may be my imagination but I like the chandelier when I want light to go all directions including both up to the ceiling and down to the floor. The fan is also good for this. I use the dome light when I want to focus light more downward and I use the ceiling cans when I want to concentrate light downward. I may be thinking they work this way because that is what I expect them to do.
Maybe some day the guys at eCabinets will turn on some more of the tools for us to use in presentation view. I know they have a lot more available.
Kerry
To find the Gamma Correction in Irfanview click on 'Image\" then choose \"Enhance Colors\" from the drop down menu and there you will find several controls including gamma correction. It works pretty good. If you like the controls in PhotoShop Elements use them. They all do pretty much the same thing. PhotoShop also has some 3D lighting effects that can add a lot. You just have to play with them. They will get you your spot effects etc.
I am not sure about the lights in eCabinets. It may be my imagination but I like the chandelier when I want light to go all directions including both up to the ceiling and down to the floor. The fan is also good for this. I use the dome light when I want to focus light more downward and I use the ceiling cans when I want to concentrate light downward. I may be thinking they work this way because that is what I expect them to do.
Maybe some day the guys at eCabinets will turn on some more of the tools for us to use in presentation view. I know they have a lot more available.
Kerry
I sort of thought the same thing about the ecabs lights. I suppose it would be a simple thing to put one of each in an empty room and look at the floor reflection.
I really apreciate your help and I will post my results in a couple days after the file is complete. You advise has made a huge defference in my preliminary renderings.
Thank you,
Mike
I really apreciate your help and I will post my results in a couple days after the file is complete. You advise has made a huge defference in my preliminary renderings.
Thank you,
Mike